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vivavegasvvivavegas Posts: 185
edited 06/11/2012 - 8:24 AM in Back Surgery and Neck Surgery
I have had enough now.i really have :''( , and i know that crying wont do me any good, i have done that for long enough, i have contacted another surgeon in southern ireland and he said that this fusion can be undone, i have had nothing but complications withthis surgery and i am going to have it undone, i have had enough.......i was actually thinking that with me having the scoloisis, what way do they put ur feet when u r lying on the table, well i think they must have put my hip in a different position or something.i dont know but all i do know is that my muscles are getting weaker and i need to do something, i just have to find out how much this surgeon is going to charge me to get this fusion undone, but the main thing is it can be undone, im wondering does anyonre know in theatre.what way our feet are put.like are they put in anything...............probably thats a silly question considering the fact that we are already knocked out in theatreand we dont know.........lol.thought id ask anyways lol


  • good question.
    firstly sorry your suffering so much in pain >:D<

    did you fuse all the way yet? did they determine that its the hardware that is causing your pain issues??
    where is the weakness located???
    did they take bone graft from your hip?? that could be a possible cause of pain/weakness. not sure just throwing guesses out there.

    is it possible its your scolosis bothering you as pain wise??

    your laid on your stomach during surgery. if you had it done through the back.
    thats all i pretty much know as your right your knocked out =))

    i imagine you saying having your fusion undone is the same as me saying hardware removal am i right?? :B

    not sure what the cost would be. thats a tuffy. someone could probably give you a rough estimate.

    how long ago was your surgery done hun?? i think i remember from reading somewhere else so forgive me for asking..

    i just want to give you big hugs, and i hope your pain goes away soon

    And I know I asked a heck of alot of questions!! sorry...

    O:) >:D< :* >:D< :* >:D<
  • I'm pretty sure that if the fusion has already taken then it can't be undone. Hopefully I'm wrong. Best of luck.
  • if you have a failed fusion or non union of bone - all of the hardware can be removed - but as you have a space with no disc - then this would make your spinal column unstable, it will still have to be stabilised.
    i dont know what procedure you had done - i work in an O.R. /operating theatre - but i do believe that there could be a few positions used for the same procedure - it is surgeons preference, you need to find out, sorry your in soo much pain - i hope you get it sorted out swiftly,
    AJ X
  • Terri firstly thanks for taking the time to replt to my post.u see i have scoloisis teri and i was recommended for w fusion with discetomy.....so when i saw this surgeon i assummed he was going to sort scoloisis out, he said he was going to fuse me, i didnt find out til after surgery that he wasnt a scoloisis surgeon.so i had 2 bad discs in back because of my scoloisis,.he went in there and fused me from l4 to s1.the thing is he didnt take out any discs and he didnt put in any metalwork, he just fused the transverse processes together with a thing called bmp[it is actually new bone that grows].....i got an mri last october and the surgeon said he thinks this bmp stuff has overgrown...........but the thing is im not sure if he fused me in scoloisis positon or he straightened me............because straight after surgery i had immmense pain on my ribcage and the right leg.think about an S shape and him fusing me in that position, i think whats happend is perhaphs the tight muscles have pulled the weak muscles in scoloisis and thats what has perhaphs effected the nerves.....now the legs are extremly weak and th whol muscles on one side of my spine is weak and the ribcage muscle is also going weak and when this happens the leg right leg muscle goes all weak and flabby..................i spoke to a chiropractor and he told me that when u change something in the lumbar it would change the ribs so maybe he did change the bottom vertbre and its effecting the ribcage.i know my case is soooo comlicated..................i sent all my stuff off to a german surgeon and he said that this type of fusion can be undone as my vertrbal joints arent damaged and that this bmp stuff has been put around the joints.i still have my discs and i have no metalwork in, apparently this bmp stuff can overgrow.its a nightmare, .........i just wish i hadnt have goten this fusion done, also its weird cause when like this musles on the one side of my body go all weak even the very eyebrows go all weak like u now when like pluck ur eyebrows and they atart to grow back u can feel them all prickly well when this weakness happens if that feeling goes all weak......am i making sense???

    I have spoken to a private surgeons secetary ust yesterday and agauin today and she spoke to the consultant and he said that it can be undone and thuis surgeon is in ireland which would suit mebetter as thats where i live rather than going to germany to have it undone.the german surgeon was on about opening up my spinal canal and reconstructing the spinal canal.which i dont really want done......i just want this fusion undone also i notice that i have had breathing issues since this fusion..has anyone else have like breathing problems, again im thininking that with the surgeon who operated on me saying he may have stretched a muscle thats what he means.......like if he has stretched a muscle by doing a fusion presumably i would think it would stay stretched particularly if im fused and would a lumbar fusion effect me higher up if i have scoloisis........i realise guys that mine is sooooo very complicated, the surgeon in ireland is a scoloisis uurgeon so he would be better to undo it if anyone as the german surgeon isnt a scoloisis surgeon...............its 1 big nightmare but im not sitiing here anymore crying im going to do something abouot it..i have to..........thanks for taking the time terri to reply :*
  • thanks so much for replying to my post...........i have done a detailed one above with more information.thanks again
  • Hello vivavegas...so sorry about your pain grrrrrrrrrrrr. Have you considered an artificial disc replacement? I have no idea if you are a candidate, but ask your doc about it. I am a candidate for it and may just be getting one soon. I have a lot of research to do first, but so far, it sounds in theory like a great new surgical remedy for some folks. Good luck and hang in there!
  • thank you so much for explaining your situation.
    i am not familar with bmp at all.
    as you know mine was fused with my own bone and hardware.
    so now i know where the question came up how they laid you on the table because of your scolosis. so that is a bit clearer.

    i really have no advice of what could be causing your pain at all. i have heard a ton of people talking about complications with bmp.

    your right!! no more crying over it!!! :D your already on the right path. already finding another dr that treats your condition!! i have known a few people that live around here that have had their scolosis "fixed" and dog gone it, they are so much better off.

    your story i think really helps people. DO YOUR HOMEWORK before the surgeon even touches you.
    just like with my revision. i made sure that he was taking everything out and putting all new back in. now whether i will fuse ???? there is no answer for that.
    we are checking into other isues right now. as i do not feel any different then before i went into surgery.
    except my legs do not go numb when i put them up. that did go away.
    i did get a new symptom of leg tingling and partial numbness in my left leg . i feel it when i walk.

    but this is not my story it is yours. ;)
    and i imagine someone will come along very very soon that can relate to what your saying!!!!! about the bmp.

    you hang in there hunny. i know how tuff it is personally to be in the waiting game and trying to figure out everything. ~X( ~X(

    i wish drs still made housecalls and brought all there equipment with them. like miniture MRI machines, Xray and CT scans. hey it could happen one day =)) =))

    lots of hugs and thoughts are with you
    O:) >:D< :*
  • Yes its all anightmare and i wish i would wake up and it be just that!!![some chance]..........im just wondering why the muscle in one side of my back right round to the front is going all weak..........i think its probably that bmp stuff alright.yes terri there have been alot of people who have had complications with bmp, in my heart i know i have to get it removed, i never had these problems before surgery.its just a shame that the surgeon who put it in wont take it out............i would have to take out a loan to pay anothere surgeon which i cant really afford, but m so glad that the surgeon in southern ireland said he could undo it..im 32 and there are days when i feel like im 80, but im not feeling sorry for myself any longer........people have said to me maybe u should just accept the way things is.........maybe they are right, and i have asked myself am i on a merry go round and will never get off.........i must have taken a talking tablet...ahh lol I will shut up now ive talked for long enough.........lol :)
  • Terri, i really hope ur fusion takes, did u have metalwork put in and ur discs removed?
  • I remember form an earlier post that you were going to see other specalists- a rheumy? Is that correct. I got a comp virus and missed a lot along the way while I was fixing it so I might have missed the rest of that post.
    What I dont understand is why didn't the original Dr fix the scoliosis in the first place.
    Like you I had scoliosis which got much worse after the herniataions and loss of disc height all from the same side.
    So when he did my fusion L3-S1 he staightened my spine as much as possible and added hardware.
    I have had to get used to using different muscles since the surgery and still tend to lean to one side as that is a habit I am slowly breaking but I have had no problems with ribs or breathing etc and I also had the BMP.

    I just cant see how your surgeon could have staightened your spine if he was just fusing the transverse processes and that is why I really am wondering if all your problems are coming from your spine or elsewhere. Just please do not do anything re surgery untill you have had everthing else checked out.

    Blessings Sara O:)
  • angel the surgeon who operated on me said he straightened me a little and the other surgeon that i saw said that he didnt straighten me that he just fused me in the scoloisis position..................what excatly are the transverse processes?, its like this angie normal for me would be like feeling my sore joints and feling like all my tissues are really hot, when this weakness thing happens its like either my breathing and ribcage is sore and hot and hard to breathe or like when this weakness thing happens the legs go cold and like numb and the whole muscle on that ribcage side goes all weak.i do remember u telling me u had lupas angel.i was thinking that perhaphs it was that and perhaphs the operation is like interferring with the nerves..........and maybe they control tempeture.am i making sense, like a light switch being like tampered on and off.u know what i mean and perhaphs if this bmp stuff has overgrown then would that like send different messages to the brain and effect the feelings of the joints????............angel the thing is a surgeon in dublin said that he can take this bmp stuff out..which is great cause i didnt like the idea of travelling to dublin......im going to pray about all of this tonight and ask god to open the paths he wants me to take and close the paths he dosent want me to take...............sorry to hear ur coputer was down angel but ur back up and running and thats the main thing.well perhaphs ur not running.lol :X
  • yes they took all my hardware out and the bone grafts that were in the disk spaces.
    and we re did the whole procedure over again.
    fingers crossed.
    if people are going to fuse they are. if they are not they won't.
    it will be a waiting game from this point on. :? :?
  • Angie regarding the lupas, how did u gwt diagnosed was it a rheumatolagist i saw the neurolagist on saturday past there and he didnt seem to know where i was coming from with the joints problems, he said he dosent think i have ms but hes going to do an mri of the brain.........its just that if it is lupas then i think it might be hard trying to get a diagnosis now with me having had the surgery.?? because of perhaphs the central nervous system being interferred with, u know where im coming from, maybe thats why things are going hot and cold......and weak and spasming.araghhhhh im going to end up in a asylum.lol...... :X , the other thng i wanted to ask u angel was with lupas is there medication u can take if pregnant,does the lupas effect ur breathing angie???.again maybe this is all nerves from the surgery , like do u think that would effect the breathing, the chiropractor told me that if they change stuff in the lumbar then they change thr ribs further on up.i dont understand that for the life of me.lol............
  • Hi my friend, I do know some about Lupus and lots about M.S. I have alot of information that I used to know by heart bout recently i seem to have forgotten some of my knowledge on them.I have been not so comfy the last few days and I think I might have some answers for you, but the info I have is just from what is left from my memory. I will send you this and let you know what i know in a short time you S.H. friend
  • Hello Viva,

    I am so sorry that your experiencing all of this! I have been reading alot about what your going through and only posted a few times.
    The tranverse process is on the posterior aspect of the vertibrae and is the bony part that you can feel and follow down your spine. Don't know if that makes sense or not

    Anyway I remember you speaking of contacting the German surgeon and reading into some of the things you had going on. I just could never get why the surgeon who put the BMP (which I am not real familar with) onthe transverse processes and did not straigten the scoliosis out. I thought to myself..."was the purpose of the surgery to fise and then at the same time straighten the spine?? HMMM"

    Scoliosis runs on my Moms side of the family. My aunt and my aunts daughter have it pretty badly. Theirs is more in the lower spine and mine is more in the mid spine. Anyway wehn my cousin was younger(she is 32 now I think) anyway she had the fusion with the rods and screws. She has now out grown them to a point and may need revision. My Aunt had 2 lower spine surgeries where they put the rods and screws in and they actually keept her sedated for the time between the two surgeries.
    Now she has a much straighter spine and much less pain.

    I so hope and pray that you will be able to get this undone and the right things done now to straighten things out.

    This is a complicated situation, and I don't understand evey single aspect of it all, but I do want you to know that I am thinking of you and praying for you! I think if I were in your shoes i would opt to try and have it undone and something else done to try and correct the situation.
    Just my personal decision and opinion.

    Please PM me if you would like some extra aupport!!
  • Lupus and Multiply Sclerosis are both Autoimmune Diseases
    I believe Lupus is mostly confirmed by symptoms and blood work
    I had a diagnosis many years ago with Lupus and I took several medicines for it for over 2 years, then found out with more testing being done I did not have it,(can u believe that-2 years taking all that med for somethin I did not and do not have)at the time my knees were bad and specific organs were not in good shape( from what blood test showed )I had one of my knees drained and the other got better on its own, also at that time my shoulders where very sore. now this was all about 18 years ago. after that i was just diagnosed with fibro for which I personal dont like having that diagnosis and dont talk much about it because many doctors have told me that it is just a name they give to something or someone when they are not sure what is going on medical with a patient (please remember as I type this it is just my experience and that all)
    during and after the lupus diagnosis my shoulders got very painful, alot to do with my heavy lifting I did in medical field work, my rhumey would give me cortisone shots approximately every 6 months sometimes in both shoulders sometimes in just one, even if i just got shot in one shoulder it would actually make other feel better also I have had these shots given to me up to 2 years ago for over 20 years. I do not have the shoulder pain anymore I believe because I can do no heavy lifting even if i wanted to. I'm not saying i don't have pain in shoulders but the pain is different now its from my cervical problems. I need to also mention that about 15 years ago they said I needed both shoulders surgically fixed because they were a mess, but at that time i said no way the shots always worked and would last for around 4 months then slowly start acting up again, so here I am today with none of that shoulder pain because I do no heavy lifting and I'm so glad i did not choose surgery. one more thing sum doc's say you can have only a certain amount of these shots in a life time well I'm here to say that I'm glad my doctor didn't believe that because these shots saved me from having surgery. and believe me girl i weight about 105 back in those days and my body could pick up a 300 pound man. (I'm sure that all my work in the health field has cause my neck issues but I loved my work more than words to say. I used to help take care of people the same way people have to help me today.( Thats VERY HARD)
    Now Multiply Sclerosis first let me say my sister one year younger then I has M.S. and has positive diagnosis for around 8 years. she is doing wonderful she can walk, run,talk and she is beautiful, she had to quit working 4 years ago because it has effected her cognitive abilities, and without her medicine she would not be able to function very good because she becomes very very tired. they have found several lesions in her brain, but to look at her you would never know she has M.S.... My sister had surgery on c2-3 and c3-4 10 years ago before her diagnosis of M.S. and I personally think this has saved her from losing her walking ability..... my sister and I are made up alike in many many ways we both where born with stenosis of the cervical area and if not watched closely that all by itself can lead into problems, because the canal is narrow to begin with and takes little for disc to touch the spinal cord.... now remember as i type this I'm just speaking from what I know and remember, everyone is different and specially with M.S.... no 2 people are the same with M.S.symptoms vary with each person.
    Now me 3 years ago approximately i started to notice my balance being off(not anything others would notice but I noticed) my rhumey sent me for MRI of spine because my reflexes were very brisk or jumpy and I told him my balance seemed off and I could not stand on just one foot with out swaying or falling over.... also I was getting lots of migraines and my eyes seem to be blurry and I had jumpy spots in my vision and a few other minor things that were just new to myself as A hard, devoted mother and worker(and I loved being both) Well the MRI showed Stenosis through out cervical area and some minor problems with disc's at that time he sent me to neurosurgeon who said nothing he could do surgically at that time to help with the pain in my neck and the headache. I was then sent to have epidurals in neck they did help with headaches and pain but... after second shot It became very hard for me to swallow and then it almost became impossible, I also had a spinal tap done. I went to gastro doc for 2 years had every test under the sun to figure out what is causing this swallow problem I also had 2 upper gastro exploratory surgery to make sure I did not have cancer, all they could tell me was I have a very slow digestive system and I have no gag reflex at all. so then back to neurologist I go... Thats when they start to think I have M.S. I have several of the symptoms.. but all 6 or 7 of MRI's of my brain show no lesions. With over two years of going to neurologist for this M.S.... my neck problems seem to been forgotten about with doctors because alot of symptoms of M.S. and cervical stenosis and myeolpathy are very very close in there symptoms.... so about 9 months(just guessing on time)I go see another neurologist and with help from my rhumey we have a whole back and neck MRI done and boom they find my neck is pretty bad and most all my symptoms I have been having could very well be from all these disc that are impinging on my cord. c6-7 being the worst...I have been told by last neurologist that I most likely do not have M.S. but that sometimes it takes years for a lesion to show up. I personal do not think I have M.S.... so after all that I have seen 3 diff N.S. and 2 especially don't want to get into me because of the possibility of M.S. to many issues they say, other surgeons states he wants to make sure I am emotional stable and so on before he will even consider me. All have said I have no other option but surgery other option would be w/c to bed to death period. well I have to use a cane now to get around and I'm very weak in both legs and mostly right arm and hand, I have myeolpathy and surgery will not correct that (meaning weakness and paralysis)(well hopefully by the grace of my hope, it will help some)surgery can take sum if not all my pain away, and time is not on my side the longer surgery has to be put off the worse the myelopathy could get. I'm getting close every day to getting my papers in order to have surgery( they tell us I'm a big risk because of all my issues)(one being my swallowing and not having a gag reflex)
    I'm going to quit now I do know I have gone off subject once in awhile but maybe telling some of my experiences might help someone else or help them to understand.also sorry i typed so much and do understand this has not been easy for me to type all this. My legs are screaming to get them up and my neck is crying.. I hope maybe some of this will help you viva someway somehow....Patsy
  • I have been told by 2 neurologist that I should not receive another flu shot, because I do have some kind of Autoimmune disease what kind or how bad of one we don't know. but with some of these autoimmune issues a flu shot would or could cause bad symptoms. this is just me and not most people my body make up a tricky one they say.
    I also have what they call a paradox effect with most medications.
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