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backpainishellbbackpainishell Posts: 969
edited 06/11/2012 - 8:26 AM in Pain Management

Angie :B :? :T ~X( :S :H


  • Angie,
    I would hope that no surgeon would do an invasive procedure like surgery on a patient and then tell them that they fixed something that they did not in fact fix.
    I know that some doctors have used placebo's as far as medications have gone, however, that is not common practice and would have to be well medically documented as to the reason that they choose to use that I would assume.
    Why are you worried about a placebo surgery? If you don't mind answering.
  • I've heard of exploratory surgery where they open you up to find the problem. As for saying they did something and nothing was done is not true. I've been a Nurse for 20 years and have never heard of them doing surgery and not really doing anything. So no it doesn't happen. I've never seen it anyway. Charry
    DDD of lumbar spine with sciatica to left hip,leg and foot. L4-L5 posterior disc bulge with prominent facets, L5-S1 prominent facets with a posterior osteocartilaginous bar. Mild bilateral foraminal narrowing c-spine c4-c7 RN
  • Hiya :D I was wondering about placebo surgery, because i know someone who it has happened to :? I actually know of the surgeon to, this just greatly concerns me ~X(

    Angie :H
  • Hiya >:D< thankyou for you reply and input on the subject :? How are you feeling now ? :D

    Angie :H
  • I wouldn't love it, but I would love it if that is all that it took to make my pain go away. A slice in my skin...

    One Love,

  • I am so surprised there is not more replys about this subject, :O Is it not heard of in america? :O 8>

    Angie >:D<
  • As far as nurses go, it is in our code of ethics that it is unethical to administer a placebo unless the patient is in a clinical trial where they understand they might be receiving a placebo.

    I don't know for sure, but would also believe it would be unethical for a physician. I cannot imagine a surgeon taking the risk of surgery just to do nothing and say it will fix a patient!

    Now, this doesn't mean medical professionals don't let people assume what they want to assume. I have had patients say, "Oh my, that helped my pain so much!" or suddenly stop a "seizure" when I am only flushing the IV I just inserted with saline. I do tell them, "That was just salt water."

    I have known physicians to tell patients that some drug will help their condition when the drug is like ativan(sedative type drug) when we're pretty sure the symptoms are anxiety related. But this is not giving them a sugar pill or saying we gave them something when we didn't.
  • I would hope not! That certainly wouldn't be "do no harm" actually creating an incision? Now one thing I learned that I did not know was that when doctors open up the spine, it is such a mess that they can't see much. Meaning, they really rely on their xrays, MRI's, CT scans, etc. I guess all the blood, etc. I had thought one time - doc, just open me up and you will see this blown disc, so quit acting like it isn't bad. But then when I read more, I learned the above - doctors see "less" when actually in the body. Scary, somewhat!

    I do know mind over matter can be very powerful, but I would think that is a very unethical doctor at risk for legal action to such a thing to a person.

    Update us when you can,

  • I don't know where you got your information from, but I have to disagree with you. When a surgeon opens up someone for spine surgery, it is quite evident to a skilled surgeon, what he is or is not seeing. Many things that are not shown on imaging studies, are very clear once a patient is opened up. The images give the surgeon a reference point, the rest is up to them based on what they see and the problem being experienced by the patient.

  • No. No. A thousand times no. There is no way that a reputable surgeon would send you into the OR, cut you open, "LIE" to you that they have "fixxed your back" and its all a ruse. Even a skeptial, suspicious patient such as I am would have a hard time believing a reputable spine surgeon could do such a thing, especially knowing he (or she) would have to have the entire OR staff in cahoots with hin (or her). I've had a lot of bad experiences but this one goes beyond the pale. NO! Susan
  • Hiya, >:D<
    Haglandc i do agree with what you say but its what the surgeon does not do , then he will tell the patient he has done this , that, and the other. I actually have proof of this on 2 seperate occassions, and it disguists me to be honest. without causing anyone offence the back, spine is the main prop of our bodies, its not a broken arm.

    Angie :H
  • Hiya, :D You know i was like you, i said theres no way ~X( , but i have the reports and the mri scans on discs :O , but on both occassions, a form had to be filled out to say the patient would not hold this against the hospital in any court of law :jawdrop:

    Angie x.
  • Hiya ernurse, O:)
    It is clear that he has been doing this, and getting away with it :S It does concern me, because for one, theres infection to think of, there is the anestetic risk. I have spoken to a couple of friends of mine who are nurses, and they have said it dont surprise them what hes doing. But when i showed them the evidence , its as they said the theatre staff who works with him, he is putting there careers on the line.

    Angie :H
  • That would constitute malpractice and doctors over here already pay through the nose for malpractice insurance so I cannot imagine that they could or would conspire with everyone in the room and there are a lot of people in there during surgery to get them all to agree to perform some placebo surgery. Not surgery of any kind! That is outrageous! I would never sign a document either that I wouldn't hold some hospital accountable in court if they hurt me or did nothing for me. I don't think I've ever even seen such a document and I've had 3 surgeries in the past 4 years.
  • Actually they start dictating notes as they are going and can actually find things that they had not seen before. I read all of the details of my surgery report and found out he had found a small piece of bone floating around in there that wasn't on the XRay or MRI. It was hiding.
  • Hey, I know, I should claim the movie rights and make a new hit thriller!

    "I Know What You Didn't Do In The O.R. Last Summer!"

    =)) =)) =))
  • Please take that helmet off I think it is causing serious issues with the blood flow to your head and it still freaks me out. @)
    I still don't think a placebo surgery could happen here. I could probably have the video of my surgery if I cared to see it. I know that some surgeries have been filmed because I watched it on youtube. I don't suggest anyone doing this before ACDF surgery though. Too scary.
  • just that i cant get my head round the fact that a surgeon will tell a patient hes tooks discs and hasnt.

    Angie ~X(
  • C-

    Too funny! You could then do 5 more sequels like the real movie did!
  • No arguement from me! I don't know about how the healthcare systems work in other countries but here there are so many follow up visits and such that I can't imagine a doctor being able to get away with it. As for cervical surgery specifically I think I would know if there was no plate or screws in the back of my throat immediately. I could eat steak again. I can't chew it up enough or seem to take small enough bites yet. Maybe better beef is all I need but no I would have known immediately after surgery had he not done anything.
    You do however have me wondering what kind of author Robin Cook is so I'm off to Google.
  • Brilliant idea! Instead of calling it
    "I Know What You Didn't Do In The O.R. Last Summer! The Sequel"

    It can be

    "I Know What You Didn't Do In The O.R. Last Summer! The Revision!"
    ernurse said:

    Too funny! You could then do 5 more sequels like the real movie did!
  • C-

    I'm going to have to re-read this after I'm weaned off my postop meds to see if I still think it's as hilarious as I do now!!!! =))

  • After i had my surgery back in 2002 i was told not to sit for no more than 20 minutes, i had to do that for 3 months. But there wasnt any other after care i didnt have physio, just 2 appointments with the surgeon , i told him i was still in alot of pain, he replyed stop being a big baby then he discharged me and told me to go back to work. so i did .

    Angie x
  • Is most famous for writing "Coma"
  • You would have to sign the form stating specifically saying that you were letting the Dr perform placebo surgery.In other words-the form would have to state that you could not sue the Dr or hospital for performing a surgery that had no purpose.I don't think a patient would sign that TYPE of form.So-if you signed a TYPICAL form and found the surgery to be placebo,the Dr would have no leg to stand on with that form.It would still be considered medical malpractice.

    Maybe you have the wrong x-rays or MRI's?
  • Robin Cook is a surgeon,and author of some believable & quite unbelievable works.

    About the kidney though (being taken from a living person)..that actually HAS happened..it does happen.Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.
  • You DO realize don't you,that Angie is really concerned about this?

    I have a sense of humor myself,but it has an appropriate place.This is not it.Openly making fun of a forum member is against the rules that I have seen you point out to others in threads so openly.Do you follow a different set of rules as the rest of us?
  • I am not making fun of the individual, just making light of the proposed situation.

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