Welcome, Friend!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Veritas-Health LLC has recently released patient forums to our Arthritis-Health web site.

Please visit http://www.arthritis-health.com/forum

There are several patient story videos on Spine-Health that talk about Arthritis. Search on Patient stories
Protect anonymity
We strongly suggest that members do not include their email addresses. Once that is published , your email address is available to anyone on the internet , including hackers.

Notice
All discussions and comments that contain an external URL will be automatically moved to the spam queue. No external URL pointing to a medical web site is permitted. Forum rules also indicate that you need prior moderator approval. If you are going to post an external URL, contact one of the moderators to get their approval.
Attention New Members
Your initial discussion or comment automatically is sent to a moderator's approval queue before it can be published.
There are no medical professionals on this forum side of the site. Therefore, no one is capable or permitted to provide any type of medical advice.
This includes any analysis, interpretation, or advice based on any diagnostic test

Operative Report Surgery was 01/13/09

claudiacclaudia Posts: 172
edited 06/11/2012 - 8:28 AM in Back Surgery and Neck Surgery
good Morning all, well i had my reconstructive surgery on 01/13/09 they decieded to go 2 levels higher the L-2 was going bad so i guess fix now or pay later and this is WC issue slip/fall in 2004 was in lite duty for 4 years any hoot, why did i have a revision if the first OP did everything right i had L-4 L-5 S-1 in Nov 2006!!

On every page i read it said THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF ANY FUSION ECT,,, had 3 opinions!!All recommened a revision!!
Also Evidence of faled hardware!! Failed right S-1 screw!!Hardware was removed L-4 L-5 and S-1 was bilaterally with the finding of failed SCREW!!
the fusion was inspected and explored and there was evindence of complete PSEUDOARTHORSIS without any evendence of any FUSION MASS!! at L-4 L-5 and S-1 Bilaterally so doc did an L-2 L-3 revision of L-4 L-5 S-1!! and said the part of the procedure was challenging the screw would not move broken in half ohhh yes i have the rods and screws that were taken out souvioner ya know!! they needed a universal kit to remove that half of the screw welll the other was stuck in my BONE somewhere and the bones were bleeding oh thank goodness i went in on time who would know what would have happened !! all i know i was getting worse burning pain l/r butt aches!! I donot understand how can i have NO DEFINITE BONE FUSION??

Now i got the first Doctors Operative report which say he did everyhting right!! except did not notify me that i had a Blood transfusion i know i signed the waiver but it would have been nice if someone told me!! one thing i did read is that he tighten the screw then loosened it then tighten it again ohmigod the RODS are so un-even oh yes i have all the !! now i have 5 screws on each side i know i should not keep reading this BUT I WANT OT KNOW WHAT WENT WRONG MAYBE SOME ON U GUYS CAN HELP!! i ASKED THE DOCTORS IS IT SOMETHING I DID AND THEY ALL SAID NO I ASKED HOW CAN U TAKE THE DISC OUT AND LEAVE ME WITH A HOLE WITH NO BONE THEY SAID THEY DONT KNOW!!SCAREY HUH.. MAN I WISH I KNEW WHAT HAPPENED I JUST WANT TO GO ON WITH MY LIFE IT IS SO DEPRESSING, AND DIG THIS EVERYTIME I WENT BACK TO THE FIRST SURGEON HE SAID THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH ME HE ADVISED ME NOT TO SEE A PAIN SPECIALIST... AND GO AND SEE HIM IN 2 YEARS YEAH DUD U GOT PAYED ALREADY SO HE BASICLLY KICKED ME TO THE CURB IT SUXS GOING THROUGH THIS PAIN ALL OVER AGAIN CRYING EPISODES... NOT GETTING SLEEP I WALK WALK WALK UP AND DOWN IN MY APARTMENT!! I AM 4 WEEKS POST OPT.. I AM DOING WHAT I AM SUBPOSE TO WEARING THE BRACE 2 MORE MOTHS I SAY,, GUYS I AM SORRY THIS IS SOOOO LONG BUT TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE MYSTERY THANK YOU , ALL FOR EVERYTHING.
advertisement

Comments

  • i'm sorry you're feeling so terrible. i hope it gets better for you.

    i don't think it is a mystery. surgery isn't guaranteed... and it happens plenty of the time... failed back surgery. hardware issues. it's a common thing, unfortunately. it doesn't necessarily mean the doctor did anything wrong. everyone heals differently and sometimes surgery doesn't work for a patient, && at times even makes them worse.
  • I'm sorry, I know all surgeries don't work, but I think he owed it to you to try and fix it, and not treat you with indifference. I'm sorry that has happened to you.
  • bUT EVERYTIME I WENT TO SEE HIM AT OFFICE VISIT, THE DOCTOR SAID EVERYTHING IS FINE !AND I FUSED, AND THAT EVERYTHING WAS ALRIGHT AFTER X-RAYS ECT ECT, SO HOW CAN I GO THROUGH THIS AND THE DOCTORS SAY I WAS NEVER FUSED THAT IS WHAT IS SO, DEPRESSING,
  • Hi Cluadia,,
    Wow, you've been through so much!! Like the others have said... it happens, but jeeez i know thats not comforting when it YOU that it happened to #o ! I'm no legal eagle... but if doctor number 1 said 1 thing... and doctor number 2 says something else... and you have the x-rays, mris etc... is there any scope for you to get a legal opinion on doctor 1's eh em abilities???? (cough cough). The main thing to focus on now is your recovery! You know it takes time, so be patient, come here and vent to your hearts content! FIngers crossed this op will relieve your symptoms and that you're on the road to recovery ;)
    L4-L5 fusion 1998; ACDF C4-6 2008; DDD
  • DIAMONDE THANKS, YEAH U R RIGHT EVERY TIME I READ THE FREAKEN REPORT I CRY,,, WHY WHY DID I HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN AM I SUCH A BAD PERSON DID I EVER ASK TO GET HURT AT WORK!!! I MISS MY FRIENDS ECT ECT OH AND I DO HAVE THE SCREWS AND RODS AND THE RODS ARE SOOOO UN - EVEN, MY FRIENDS SAY GET LEGAL ADVICE BUT TO AFRAID THAY IS A LONG PROCESS HOW CAN HE LIE IN THE REPORT AND EVERY VISIT HE SAID I AM FINE!! AND NOT TO SEE A PAIN SPECIALIST I HAVE THE COPIES,,, FOR THE FIRST 8 MONTHS I WAS COOL THAN BOOM AND WHAT HURTS NO- ONE BELIEVED ME EXCEPT MY PAIN SPECIALIST WHO WAS IN SURGERY THIS TIME W/ ME AS THE ANASTOLGIST I TRUST HIM AND WHEN HE SAID I WOULD BE FINE I AM WALKING I CAN MOVE MY TOES BUT DOCTOR SAID IT IS A VERY LONG RECOVERY AND THEN HE GAVE ME A HUG I GOT SCARESD A FEW WEEKS AGO MY UPPER THIGHS WERE SO HEAVY WHEN I WALK , I THOUGHTR SOMETHING WAS WRONG WENT TO E.R SAID IAM FINE VERY SWOOLEN THAN NEXT DAY DOC DID X-RAY AND SAID U MUST REMEBER U WENT THROUGH MAJOR RECONSTRUCTIVE SURGERY TAKE IT EASY PLUS 2 LEVELS HIGHER ME NO- PATIENCE BUT LEARNING VERY FAST. ICRY BECAUSE I DO NOT DESERVE TO GO THROUGH THIS !! HOW CAN U LEAVE A HOLE WHERE THE BONE WAS SUBPOSE TO GO ... IF U WERE TO SEE THESE REPORTS YOUD FREAK OUT,, SCAREY A----- S----
  • OK, sweetie, first of all, turn off the caps lock! I know you probably really are screaming right now but it's hard to read(especially on meds and laying on the couch!) :)

    Let me try to understand one thing-you have a new surgeon who did the last surgery and he is helping, right? Your issues are with the first surgeon, is that right? Please correct me if I misunderstood your post.

    If that is true, I'm glad you got a new guy. I ALWAYS think 2nd opinions are good, even if someone liked their doc, it doesn't hurt to have one.

    Screws can break. Seems impossible that those titanium things can break, but they can. That is a normal possible risk.

    Fusion or lack of(pseudoarthrosis/pseudarthrosis): It's hard to see early fusion on xrays or CT because hardware causes so much artifact(interference) that it happens a lot where a doc thinks a patient starts to fuse and then doesn't. "Proof" of early fusion can only come from direct visualtion(surgery.) There are things docs can look for, but early fusion is hard to detect. Also, if you had BMP, it can cause some bone reabsorption. So, one xray may show some bone growth and then next xray show less to none. Kind of a 2 steps forward 1 step backwards sort of thing.

    Most people do fuse, some of us "lucky" ones don't. Risk factors for non-fusion can include smoking(inhibits bone growth), NSAIDS(inhibt bone growth), steroids, obesity, inactivity, hardware problems(like too big, or movement of screws or cages the wrong size or moving around), osteoporosis among other things. Having said those risk factors, some docs will prescribe short courses of NSAIDS or steroids to calm down irritated nerves after fusion just to help you get through. There are folks who did every one of these things and still had really solid fusions. Then there are some of us who did exactly what the doc said to do and don't fuse-whether it be the surgeon's fault or just our darn luck. Sometimes you can have the best surgeon in the world and still not fuse.

    As far as pseudoarthrosis goes, the statistics I've seen say that very few real non-fusion patients have pain from the non-fusion. If they have pain, it is likely from other things. Sounds like you have been through the ringer. This whole thing sucks then you throw work comp on top of it and it complicates everything!

    You mention legal advice. Get a copy of your consent form and make sure that it says one of the possiblities is non-fusion. Docs usually cover themselves with that. If you feel like you need to pursue legal advice, do it quick, your statute of limitations may run out. In my state, it is 2 years unless the permanence of the injury would not have been apparent then I think(again I think, not know) it is 3 years. Every state is different. If you believe he lied, I would make an appointment with the hospital's risk management department and explain your issues.

    If you get nowhere and feel that he has falsified your records, there is a government agency that specifically accredits hospitals you can speak with. http://www.jointcommission.org/ I am sure the hospital he is affiliated with is accredited by the Joint Commission(remember this is a federal government agency, not just some survey company) and hospitals have panic attacks over routine inspections from this agency. http://www.jointcommission.org/GeneralPublic/Complaint/qi_review_criteria.htm This link lists what things they consider reportable events and what priority they rank them. If you really feel the first guy did wrong, this is the government agency you contact. Don't expect the hospital to be happy with you(even though there is a no retaliation policy from Joint Commission.)

    As far as pulling out screws and leaving a hole in your bone, I guess it's no big deal and will eventually fill in? That's how I am. What I am concerned about is where I am not fused how will that permanently effect me. Like, when can I ride a roller coaster? I expect I'll hurt a bit after an amusement park, but if I have levels that are not fused, what is safe?

    Doesn't sound like your first surgeon was a good personality for you and didn't want to deal with you when you started having complications. I hope this new surgeon is able to help you more and listens to you. I don't think the holes in your vertebrae(just my opinion, don't know for sure) are a big deal, I think it's important that the new guy is listening to your issues. Do I understand that right or did I misunderstand? Hopefully work comp will still pay for everything and this recovery will go well.

    You know it's a long haul in recovery, sounds like you are quite agitated(rightly so.) You might consider asking for an anti-depressant if you think it might help. Sometimes it just helps you think better and takes the emotion out-surgeons don't deal well with crying, screaming patients in their office(thankfully Mr. ER comes with me to most appointments so I sound rational and I also have my zoloft!)

    Please, correct me if I misunderstood anything and also post updates. As a work comp patient with 5 surgeries in less than 2 years and non-fusion issues among everything else, I really am interested in your situation.

    Good luck to you,

    Angie
  • I also agree with ERNurse to get a 2nd and 3rd opinion. You've been through alot and perhaps you need more answers. I know it's hard not to but try to get some rest. Do you have something to help you sleep? I hope you can get another Dr. to help or give counsel. Even to contact the patient care manager of the hospital. They do an inquiry into things on the inside and up to and including their own lawyer to go through things. Find out their number online of the hospital. It's very difficult to be so young and have these surgeries. I hope you're able to heal well now that you have more support. I haven't had spinal surgery yet so I'm limited of what I can say to help. Just know I hope you come out of this more healed and wishing you less pain. Take care. Charry
    DDD of lumbar spine with sciatica to left hip,leg and foot. L4-L5 posterior disc bulge with prominent facets, L5-S1 prominent facets with a posterior osteocartilaginous bar. Mild bilateral foraminal narrowing c-spine c4-c7 RN
  • Well you explained so much to me , and thank you so very much. wearing my brace for 3 months than they have me using a spinal stim for ar least 2 hours a day , I do feel good bout my neorsurgeon first i went to orthapedic. So how do the rods become un -even also , and when they took the disc out left a hole, I guess you can say iam hurt angry, you know you have been through lots also, noy really looking to a lawsuit i guess his word against his but you know doctors really do not go against each other,,, yes it is a long recovery, all i want to do is heal and go on with my life and take a vaca well i am rushing because its only 4 weeks, me personally have no patience, But tes the first Surgeon is my personal injury lawyer best friend and i do like my lawyer do not want to cause problems and the process is so long//But yes everytime i went to see him he only did an x-ray and said i was fine thank god i got help now or we know it would have gotton a lot worse my pain specl said stay away from him not worth it so yeah i just need to calm down and recover and yes i had cage and bone, subpose to but i thank you angie so much.
  • the first time i did no such thing my lawyer recomended this doc went with him, and DID NOT get a second opinion, well this time i did and all recommened revision os surgery and 2 levels higher. i guess going nuts in this crib i do walk lots and you guys are so right i do need rest, and serious have to stay away from those reports, i just want to get back to the gym do my cardio and go on with my life, doc said recovery will be a while he said as he gave me a hug so sweet you have to take it easy you had major reconstructive surgery,,thank you so much i appreciate all of you so much
  • I am glad I was able to explain a little. We all have to look out for each other!

    Seriously, I would be concerned about the falsification of medical records. I would go to hospital's department first, but if no satisfaction, report to Joint Commission. If he did it to you, you know he did it to someone else.

    Most important thing is that you are on the road to recovery. You will get better, you seem like a determined person and seem like you will not let this get the best of you. Yeah, times will be tough, but you really sound like a fighter to me.
  • my dream one day is to attend Sturgis, i know i will not be riding year or maybe the next i do care but i will fly out there.. i have to concentrate on recovery and to keep walking and in 2 months i will start physical yherapy, after my first surgery doc sent me back to work with no therapy in 3 months well i did ask when because at the time i was in a lite duty position.but as you know sitting or standing to long aggravites legally all his reports sre so hard to prove plus i have all of the office visits from december 6 2006 til i stopped seeing him he knows i was in pain and did not a thing!!1
  • Yes i read all of your post!! u have been through so much glad you r on the road to recovery, like i always say the mind is stronger than the body.. i am a very active positive person i love doing Cardio up until the day of surgery. i have the post opt reports and i also had so much scar-tissue from the first surgery, but in any terms i do not see where it is written i have to see my Doctor on Friday so i will ask but i wanted to do my own research, ya know what i mean i too am weaning off the Meds i do not like to be zombied out!! i am an up- beat person,, take care Zack
  • You might ask your doc when you see him for a script for physical therapy to do scar tissue massage. I got work comp to cover it. It is not fu-fu feel good massage, they sort of dig and try to break up the more superficial scar tissue and keep new adhesions from forming. I know they can't take care of scar tissue that might be attached deep or to the cord, but I'll do just about anything that is proven to help to break up and prevent the more superficial scar tissue. I'm having it done now, have asked several therapists, usual script is for 2-3 times a week for 2-3 weeks.
  • Well i know that they cleaned all the scar tissue out!! i tell u this 8 months ago the could not even give me an injection because the scar tissue was blocking, my legs still hurt itry to walk alot iam 5 weeks post opt today!! thank you so much i was crying so much this morning i am glad did not wake my daughter she has a nasty cold i read the report how could this doc do this to me bleeding bones screw stuck in bones ohhh and i have all the screws and 1 half the rods are un even all it says is over and over no evidence of any fusion i mean on every page, so i called my sister in washington talked and felt much better like i have to go through this all over again !!lucky i did i would have gotton well do not know bleeding bones and as u know went two levels higher l-2 l-3 was not so bad but doc felt we should take care of it now , iwill see the doctor on friday and ask about that thank you so much for looking out!!so tell me has it helped u any? please keep in touch sorry for all the DRAMA
  • Claudia,

    Just a small note about the rods. When they place the rods in your back, they are bent to the curvature of your spine. If the rods were straight, you would then be left leaning forward. On removal of the screws, it sounds like the bone grew around the screws which will make them difficult to remove.

    I had my hardware removed last year and have 6 holes. They were packed with bone spackle as I call it. They may or may not fill in. The holes are no big deal so don't worry about them.

    Dave
  • Claudia,

    So you have noticed that the rods were bent. They bend each side so that they match up with the screws that are implanted. My rids aren't the same either, they are close but definitely not the same. It's all in how the screws were placed. Angie had a nice definition to no fusion. My comment would be what my Doctor told me, you cannot assess fusion with an xray, CT or visual (not recommended) is the Gold standard in determining fusion.

    I've argued on multiple occasions with other members when they come on here claiming they fused in 6 weeks and there Doctor is saying that they fused from the xrays. All you can see on the xrays is a cloudy mess.

    My suggestion is to drop the past and move forward with what you have now.

    Dave
  • Hi ernurse,

    I'm post op 4.5 months (L4-5 micro - disc, lamin, and forami). You're so right about the zoloft. I was freeking out before my surgery and after. I have a question for you. Do big guys heal slower and experience more setbacks? You see I am a big guy, got back to work and drive for a living. By the end of the day my foot is aching and my back is in spasm. I wonder if a fusion is in my future with my size against a successful fusion.

    Hope to hear from you,
    Backman38

advertisement
Sign In or Register to comment.