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Drug test results

AnonymousUserAAnonymousUser Posts: 49,622
edited 06/11/2012 - 7:36 AM in Pain Management
Does anyone know if a drug, (Urine,) test can differentiate between Oxycontin and Kadian?

Both are Opiates.

Thanks.
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Comments

  • I also think the best thing is to talk to the old doctor with an explanation as to why she ran out early and why she took meds that weren't prescribed for her. This deserves a heartfelt conversation with her medications provider.

    Maybe it'll be a two-strikes-and-you're-out deal with the old doc and he'll give her one more chance. There's nothing to lose with using Michael's approach.

    Cath
  • This is really an unfortunate situation your wife is in and I do sympathize because I live with chronic pain as well. Paul is right- PM clinics are very strict and it's hard to say if they will give her a second chance. When I have my drug screen I noticed that they check for A LOT of stuff and leave no rock unturned. They do not miss a thing. I don't know what to tell you about this situation other than it's probably best to be honest because they will find out what happened from the last PM doctor your wife saw. Most clinics now won't let you in without a referral or medical records. I do hope that things will work out for your wife and that she can find another pain specialist. Take care
  • I am sorry to hear of your issues. The thing is this, I too have been on urine tests, because I am younger than most who have these kind of problems.

    Please don't share meds.

    You create the very problem that gives people like me, problems due to being denied the meds, because Dr's begin to feel that all of us will lie to them.

    I have been in my Dr office waiting to get my meds re-ordered. I am on what you call Sched 2 meds. I am the one who has jumped through every hoop and still gets lectured about the evils of these meds. But it is with them and a lot of other help, that I manage my pain and live my life.

    I have been in the Dr office and watched 2 people share a conversation that went along the line of " Dan, don't forget, you need to get a 6 month supply of that drug, so you can pay back whats her name for the 5 weeks that YOU have been taking HER meds. And don't forget the other drugs for the OTHER guy up on 2nd floor too.

    And I am the one who has urine tests each month-to make sure that I am not selling my meds. I have fought for 4 years to get onto a set of meds that controls the pain enough for me to not consider stopping work tomorrow. That is how much they do for me.

    If someone you care about is running out of meds, they should be back at thier Dr to be re-assessed for the pain and then figure out a better plan. Most Dr's will work with you, but you must follow the rules and sharing will get you fired as a patient.
    Please keep that to yourself.
  • dilaurodilauro ConnecticutPosts: 10,065
    First Urine tests can be very specific. They can pinpoint medications and the timeframe they were taken

    Second If she did not have enough of her own pain medications until refill time, then that indicates that she was taking more than the prescribed amount. You identified Oxycontin, which is an extended relief medication. That makes it even more serious that she took more than prescribed at some time. The extended relief medications are very dangerous when the script is not followed. Some of the side effects can be fatal. Respiratory failures seem to be the most common with any abuse of Oxycontin

    Third Patients should NEVER share their medications with another. It might seem harmless at the time, but it can lead to big trouble.

    Fourth Her current doctor cutting her off Cold Turkey, because of a potential drug abuse. With today's networks, information like this is generally passed around. This is how both doctors and pharmacists identify drug seekers. Like Michael said, a Red flag has been raised now.


    These are the bare bone facts, not trying to scare or intimidate you or your wife. There were/are a couple of things that should have been done and need to be done:

    Communicate the problem with running out of her medications before next refill time. This is one problem area that Doctors/Pharmacists/DEA eat up on. You wife needed to have talked to her current doctor regarding this situation. We are not here to pass or make any judgments. Gosh knows how many other members on this site have been through the same. She could have told the doctor a- She took more than she should have, b- the medications were no longer helping c- Some were lost. No one is going to believe c-, a- is very common, but doctors are not going to take kindly to that, b- is something if done in the appropriate time frame is the most accepted.

    Come clean with the new doctor You would be amazed ad just how understanding doctors can be. But you NEVER want them to find out that information on their own.

    Telling the truth when it comes to narcotic (or all medications) is the best and ONLY path to take. I am far from any saint, but I guess years and experience has helped me to better understand. Yesterday I had root canal down on one of my molars. I never seem to do well with oral problems and I know I am going to need some pain medications.
    I currently take Opana 5mg PRN. That would/will handle my mouth pain without any problems. The dentist was going to write a script for some vicodin. I told him not to. I use the Hospital external pharmacy for all of my medications.. But lets say if this dentist wrote a script and I went to get it filled at a near bye pharmacy, a simple check would have told them that I was getting Opana at one pharmacy and now filling Vicodin at this pharmacy.
    I monitor my medication intake closely, using a spreadsheet for each of them. Working with my pain management doctor. I had just refilled my Opana the other day. I am down to 2 Opana a day, so for now a script is written for a month at a time. I contacted my pain management doctor because I realize that taking Opana for both my spinal problem (Chronic) and root canal problem (Acute) would increase my daily intake , thus shortening my time before the Opana was needed again. I spoke with my Pain management doctor today about this situation. She was fine with the fact that I am increasing my daily dosage. She put that in her notes and thanked me for the update and honesty.

    I hope that you wife will be able to get out of this mess.

    Ron DiLauro Veritas-Health Forums Manager
    I am not a medical professional. I comment on personal experiences
    You can email me at: rdilauro@veritashealth.com
  • You hit on all points fantastically.

    Romeodt, I hope that you and your wife understand how these things work now and that we're just trying to help and not judge. It is so easy to make mistakes when you have so many rules to follow, esp when you're in constant pain and can't think straight. But there are consequences if you make a wrong choice. These are the times we live in and we're under so much scrutiny because of having to take narcotic medications that others are abusing and/or diverting. Your wife does have a debilitating illness and she needs to be treated by a doctor. Are you seeing a pain specialist?
  • I can understand how giving ones spouse a few of one's Kadian does not seem eggregious. "We've shared a toothbrush once or twice for goodness sake. That's not like selling drugs on the street or passing them around a party." Unfortunately, when its time to pay the piper, its all the same.

    My PM doc is getting out of the business because (you may have heard me tell this story before) 50% of the people who come to see her are drug-seekers. These docs are so hyper-sensitive to this matter. They feel ABUSED.

    I'd try to set it right with your outgoing doctor (if you even can). I would be contrite. Best of luck. Susan.
  • Well, my wife went to see a new PM Doctor today and she didn't want to listen to my wife's reasons for taking unpercribed meds to get her by till she could get in to see the new PM. They are sending my wife down to a Detox clinic in Marshfield Wisconsin.

    Who know's...maybe this is a good thing. All I know is if it works for her, I am doing the same! I have been taking Sched. 2 pain killers, Oxycontin, Morphine, Percocet, Ect... since 1986 when I broke my neck in an auto accident. I have also had a lower back surgury for a bulging disk. And now I have another one in my lower back. Grant it, I have pain, but who know's how much? My body has had pain blockers in it for almost 26 years now.

    I have other things I can try, like a TENS unit and a lower lumbar Pneumatic spinal stretcher. This thig works wonders, but I am a very busy person as I am the sole money maker, and I feel I don't have time to use this stretcher. Even though it only takes 10 minutes to use. I am going to have to find the time to use it instead of poping more pain candy!

    If I detox myself and there are no more narcotics in the house, then my wife can't fall off the wagon, (after detox,) and I won't be able to help her get back into narcotics.

    Thanks again to everyone for the very helpful comments and suggestions.

    I will let you all know our outcome, and please pray for us!
  • I feel bad for your wife that she has to wait around with no help. It sounds like they dropped the ball at the detox place. As far as the PM doctor helping out, I don't think they are obligated to to help you wean off medications. Some will do it if they want to and prescribe meds like Clonodine to help with withdrawal symptoms.

    You can get her some Immodium AD for diarrhea and stomach cramps, an NSAID for aches and pains, Pepto Bismol or Emetriol for nausea and upset stomach...that's all I can think of to take a bit of the edge off. Perhaps she can go to her family doctor who will hopefully sympathize and give her something- possibly even pain medicine. It won't hurt to give it a try. Take care
  • Honestly, if you or your wife were patients at the my doctor's office, the legal action would have been police officers showing up on your door step, investigating why you were diverting your CII narcotics to your wife.

    And as far as the PM prescribing narcotics to "get her by," it goes beyond just not wanting to - under most conditions, PM's can't continue to prescribe narcotics to a known addict.

    If the withdrawal symptoms are out of hand, go to the nearest ER and they can get her into a detox center. It may not be your preferred detox center, but they can get her in somewhere.
  • I am so sorry for what your wife is going through. I have a brother going thru the same thing but he has almost made it. My dad and doctor slowly detoxed him without him going to a center but it has been a long road months of trouble out of him fights cruel words him trying to steal meds from other people. It has been just horrible but he is getting there now. No one plans on addiction im sure he didnt but with numerous back surgeries rods screws and everything else half way up his back he just couldnt take it. It all amounted to tough love we couldnt let him stay with us hardest thing i ever did to my brother was tell him no along with my mom telling him no. He just wasnt going to live much longer if we didnt intervene. I agree thats there is a difference in being addicted and depending on something to help a person live as normal a life as possible. I myself cant take strong meds they make me sick to bad they didnt work that way on him. One thing a person never does is share their medications. My reasoning is
    1. i signed a contract
    2. i am given a limited amount and i wont go over
    3. if the person needs to be on pain meds then go to a physician and explain the necessity i had to.
    4. i wont enable an addict
    5. my pm trusts me thus far i wont break that trust
    6. If i need something more or stronger i will call my physician and try to get in early or tough it out until the next appt.
    7. I wont be responsible for what happens to someone that has taken something i gave them.
    8. I wont take the chance of losing my meds because they couldnt control their habit.
    9. If they are asking for yours they took all of theirs and this is not healthy.
    10. these are mine written for me it doesnt say for this person and someone else if i think they need it im no doctor.

    I not judging you or your wife i know your position i have dealt with my brother its a bad bad thing to go through. I hope she gets the help she needs. I also hope you do if you are having the same issues if not i would be very concerned about what is going to happen when you go in for your appt. I think at this point i would be scared to death of going back in to see my pain doc if i had done that then got caught. He would not tolerate overuse or sharing and definately no second chance for either. One thing here is when one doctor knows they all do and so do the pharmacies. Very scary situation I am very sorry you are stuck in this as i can only assume you were just trying to help your wife but in doing so you enabled her addiction, and possibly ended the pain management you have been receiving. Im am sorry that your intention to help only landed you in this situation.
  • dilaurodilauro ConnecticutPosts: 10,065
    advice. Romeodt, please read Refugee's post several times. She is speaking from experience and is only offereing good advice.

    Ref, Thanks for posting this
    Ron DiLauro Veritas-Health Forums Manager
    I am not a medical professional. I comment on personal experiences
    You can email me at: rdilauro@veritashealth.com
  • I'm very sad to see our wife suffer so. Do get to the ER if she has withdrawal symptoms. All they can do is help there I hope that for you. You may be short with your own meds at the end of the month. I'm glad my Dr.. looks after my meds and not a PM Dr. I wish your the best over the weekend. Take care. Charry
    DDD of lumbar spine with sciatica to left hip,leg and foot. L4-L5 posterior disc bulge with prominent facets, L5-S1 prominent facets with a posterior osteocartilaginous bar. Mild bilateral foraminal narrowing c-spine c4-c7 RN
  • I hope you got some help for your wife. Its never easy to admit that there is a problem. Its definately not easy to say no to someone you love and no one wants to see their family member in pain. I love my brother him and i are so much alike in how we speak and look. It tore my heart out to tell him no I cried for days. To see him weighing about 100 lbs his eyes sunk in his hair falling out not eating didnt want to shower all he worried about was where to get what he needed and the constant suffering because no matter how much he took his body wasnt satisfied. It didnt matter to him if he got it from family or someone on the street. He would lie cheat or steal whatever it took. For me saying No meant I wouldnt help him die. If he did end up dying from this I couldnt imagine how i would feel if i had tried to get him some type of medication. I dont think i could have lived with myself had i helped him and then he was gone.

    Please keep this in your mind this is something I will never forget. What i do have now is my brother slowely becoming himself again. We are able to have a conversation without him falling asleep on the phone he is getting through this. he is almost there and starting to enjoy life again. Anytime someone asks you for something please dont be an enabler an addict will tell you anything to get medication and i mean anything whether its the truth or not.

    One thing i wont do is enable an addict you must stand firm do not listen to them if they hurt that much they can get help from the ER. You know your wife and what problems she has, so when she has pain offer to take her to the hospital, stand by her, love her, help her with everything, but never supply any type of medication unless it is perscribed to her. You will only enable her to continue with the addiction. You can do this, I love my brother so much that i am willing to watch him suffer while coming off the drugs, but he is alive. My family and i had to choose either watch him feed his addiction and die or stop him from getting it and watch him live. I wish you the best with this it is a very bad situation and a long road ahead.
  • Are you guys saying they urine drug test you at the PM's office at your appointment? I've never heard of that or had that happen yet, Or they give you a lab test paper and you goto the lab and take the test?
  • Oganix, many of us get urine screened by our PM's at our appointments. Every doctor I've ever been to does a screen at the first appointment and then some continue to do it routinely at every appointment, while others do true random drug testing. My doctor usually does initial screen, then periodic random testing for compliance, unless he has a reason to believe a person is not telling all, in which case he'll test at the drop of a hat.
  • for sharing your story. It will definitely help others out there, with the same problem.
    Kelly
    APROUD CANADIANveteranButNOTa doctor, my thoughts are my own
  • Romeo, how are you and your wife doing? I hope that eerything is moving along, and your wife, and you, are getting better. Please let us know!!
    Kelly
    APROUD CANADIANveteranButNOTa doctor, my thoughts are my own
  • Did he say she was addicted? Was the pm sending her through detox to clear those drugs out so he can get her started on something else??
    If she still has a condition that will require pain meds, detox and no meds isn't gonna help. What the plan for the pain after detox?
    And if Romeo requires meds, what is detox gonna help him? If he hurts still.

    Romeo, did you even try to talk to old pm again to explain and plead the situation in hopes of a second chance? Plead pain induced insanity! Cuz if the pains that bad, sounds like a good defense to me.
    Good luck to you both, hope you get things figured out.
    Keep us posted.
  • You don't get it. Romeo's wife violated her pain contact. There are no second chances for people who abuse drugs, sound familiar?
  • I do freaking get it, do u have to butt in and be rude?
    No it don't sound familiar, I don't share or ask for someone elses meds!
    You talking bout my mj use? Cuz we can talk about it by pm if you want.
    I don't have a problem with my pm. I'm honest! But if you'd like to continue u may pm me anytime.
    Sorry Romeo, some people have to be rude and nick pick everything.
    You never said she was an addict, I was asking.
    Hope detox goes good, but I bet the pain is gonna suck.
    Good luck to you guys, you'll be in my prayers!
  • Read my post again, cuz apparently all u saw was my name and jumped on it! Where was your reply to Romeo?
    He needs your advice not me!

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