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ADR if it were you would you have it ???

strakerstraker Posts: 1,851
edited 06/11/2012 - 8:37 AM in Lower Back Pain
yes folks i want to know what would you do if it were an option for you .a simple yes or now will do


  • i have just been invited to a seminar next week from the people that run the UK ADR society so if i am well enough i will attend
  • a canidate for ADR I would have went that route in a minute.

    Good luck!
  • I would take 20 years of feeling better vs. being in severe pain on a daily basis. Only you can make the final decision. What does Kath say?
  • i am one of the bad cases and it all goes wrong ..we put so much trust in the last operation and was seriously let down as you all know i have gone so far down hill over the last few years i feel that this could put me 6 FT under ! i don't know its all a big thing i am the kind of man that dose not have good luck and i just have this feeling that i would be one of the unlucky ones
  • read that one in a fortune cookie!LOL
    PS maybe i need to walk the rice paper or snatch the pebble from the old mans hand first!{anyone under 40 wont get that one }
  • I would not do it. My doc told me that they have a long way to go with the ADR and he would not advise it at this time.
  • can you give me you reason why please
  • grateful if you would give me your reasons .sorry i am not thinking too well at the moment .i need as much information as i can as it could soon be a reality for me ..my wife would have it ..in a flash ..i was surprised when she told me this ..her reason was you have got to die of something .and she would rather live for 5/120 years in a normalish life doing stuff than life for another 40 years in a recliner!! she has a good point
  • i would have it. go to seminar and get as much info as poss, i think its great that you can go to a seminar. get there even if you gonna suffer more pain for a while, best of luck mate
  • Yes, I'd definitely have it!
  • the live you life as a lion {and die young..ish} or live your your life as a elephant and live long and slow!
  • Tony, I would say if there is a good chance of it improving your situation, go for it. Make sure you feel confident about it though, and find the best possible surgeon. I'm facing the same kind of decision myself, so I know how tough it can be to decide.
  • straker said:
    can you give me you reason why please
    Yes. I did talk to my doc about the ADR. He strongly advised against it because he said that they have not perfected the artificial disc yet and feels that it will be awhile before they do. He felt that there are still too many unresolved issues with it.
  • above but wanted to add that my situation is different than yours so I can't say for sure if my doc would have given me the same advice if I were in your shoes.
  • I've lived my entire life with the knowledge that at the least, I''d be facing lots of surgery and possibly not be able to walk. Maybe I'd be in better shape now if I'd been more careful then... but that was not and is not my way. I did pretty much everything I wanted to do, dangerous or not... smart or not. I enjoyed myself... and while it sucks to be facing surgery, pain and more limitations than I know what to do with... I wouldn't change anything.

    I say that because 3 years ago, I saw a new ortho surgeon about increasing pain and limitations with my back. My one ortho (from the time I was 7) had retired and I had moved some distance away. He was a nasty piece of work.. not at all encouraging or helpful... what he described to me sounded so bad, so ... prehistoric, that I walked out and decided that I'd rather deal with what I had, than be so limited, so much more in pain for so long... for a possible temporary fix.

    If that doctor had offered me the chance at the ADR I think I would have done it there and then. Yes, I'd have done some investigation, ,but the thought of some years of being pain free or at least, nearly... compared to being stiff, not being able to bend much and facing surgeries on my surgery... would have me grabbing for it. good or bad, it would be a decision I'd be making for me, for now..and, I'd be hoping that by the time there might be "issues" something better would then be available...eternal optimist (with a constant mess on my face...) Of course, this is coming from someone that was too afraid of the talk of cages, screws, rods and whatnot to do anything other than manage the pain.... so it's probably not worth much :)

    Are there people who have had it that you can talk to, finidnign out the good/bad, do they have problems similar to yours? Maybe, don't leap... but definitely saunter over and take a good look!

    Good luck with whatever you decide.
  • we are light years behind the rest of the world with things ADR and many doctors are conservative about new technology.even the consultant that my wife and i saw and the letter that came to my house today {a summary of the visit to the consultant} he was negative about ADR because he had only done a few and they had limited success ...so i wont be letting him go anywhere near my back ..if and i stress if i am going to have it done it will be done by a surgeon that has a very good track record and i know that he has done over 300 procedures {i am not allowed to mention him by name]but his rate is around 85% very good and 10% 5% bad IE worse than befor the paitient went in for the operation .there is a long way for me to go befor i get on the table yet .first there is the MRI scan on the 7 Nov then there could be as much as an 18 week wait to see the consultant then i will have to go through many medical tests to see if i am suitable then and only then after consultation with my wonderful wife and doctor i will make the final decision .i am only 43 and the device has a life of at the max 17 years .revision surgery would almost be a certain in my life time at least once maybe twice if i live long enough! i have a young beautiful daughter and i would love to see her grow up and get married and have children as well as my own life i want my wife to have her happy husband back she deserves that .she has been a tower of strength for me in all my years or pain she stayed when others would have left .i love her so much it hurts i could not imagine life without her she keep me alive .so this operation could mean an awful lot to me and her .even if i can get back to a normalish life for the next ten years .rather 10 years of happiness than another 30/40 years of pain and misery .at the moment i have come to a complete stop life is very hard work and i am unable to do the most basic of things so any improvement would be good .maybe third time lucky???
  • you have put plenty of thought in it and I feel sure that whatever decision that you make will be the right one. Good luck.
  • Yes, I would do it in a heartbeat if it meant the possibility of a mostly pain-free and more mobile life.I would do what you are doing as well, take it step by step, find the best surgeon possible, and in my case pray hard O:) I truly believe that God, Mohammad, or who/what every you believe in, we were not meant to live our lives in pain. And that doctors are guided by this "being" as the conduit for our healing. (As well as their quest for making money =)) ). I keep you always in my thoughts and prayers. >:D<

  • This surgery has the possibility to make you better. Without it, you have no possibility of getting better. Which are you more afraid of? Risking surgery, or staying the way you are indefinitely? I know it's a very hard decision Tony! For me, going through the surgeries and taking chances is the ONLY reason I can walk now. Hopefully your MRI will help you and your doctors in making this decision. I'd hate for you to decide to do it only to be told you're not a candidate. Take a wait and see approach, time will tell. Take care friend.

    Faith M
  • Hi - September 2008 I was implanted with a charite disc in my L4L5 and also an ALIF at L5S1 by one of Australias most experienced spinal surgeons. After my surgery I felt on top of the world. Out of bed on day 2, walked straight into the shower feeling tender from the wound but great otherwise. Day 5 I was sent home. I felt like I was dying on the way home with the pain from the car trip. If you have it done, get an ambulance to get you there or lay down in the back of a wagon. After my surgery I had regained 4 cm in height that I lost since my injury. This brought pains and spasms which felt like electric shocks. This continued up to my 3 month review. My back at 3 months felt a little sore, as if it was seized a little at my new disc I told the physio. She did some trigger point stuff and I walked out feeling better but still stiff. The shocks would continue, most likely from the BMP that was placed in with the fusion I was told. The doctor and physio both said this should cease before my 6 month review.

    At 6 months I felt the same as my 3 month review. My surgeon said he was very happy with how it all looked on my new scans and to work hard over the next 6 months. He said "I could not undo what he has done". He also said I may now have permanent nerve damage from the original injury. (Or is it because of my delay to have surgery)

    Now I am at 13 months. At the end of November I travel by plane the 1000kms from Sydney to the Gold Coast in Queensland to see my surgeon again. He also wants me to undergo more tests. You see, I have bad back pain again. The legs and my feet are driving me mad. My feet get so hot that I sleep with them out the bed most nights and I hardly ever wear shoes now. I just cant stand the sensation of anything touching them. Thats not including the pins and needles I still get and that burning sharp pain in my legs. Then theres that hot burning irritation I have with the pain in my lower back again. I was wondering what it was. I thought maybe it had something to do with my fusion, maybe its going wrong?

    But then I seen another surgeon and another doctor and they both said I have swelling and paramuscle spasms over my facet joints at the level of my surgery. Then I had another xray for my surgeon and posted it up to him. I looked at it first, and it said I now have "sclerosis to my facet joints" Now what did that all mean?

    So I began searching the internet. Now I have read about what I call "my timebomb" sitting inside me waiting to go off. Maybe it already has, I dont know. I just hope this is a minor setback that my surgeon can solve. But it really feels like all the symptoms that ADR failures list as symptoms. Very early facet degeneration, the unexplained leg symptoms and the back pain.

    I will let you know what my surgeon says at the end of November, and then maybe I can honestly say if I would have it again. My initial thoughts are no. Not a charite disc. And probably not another type either. They are designed to rotate around the front of your spinal column but your normal spine rotates posteriorly, at the back of the spine. The COR they call it, the centre of rotation for a normal spine is in the facet joints at the rear of your spine. So you really dont stand a chance. They say if the ADR wins out the facet joints will fail, or if the facets win the disc will fail, subside etc. And why is it your normal discs are the spines shock absorbers, but these replacements are not. They are designed to rotate not act as shock absorbers. I think they have it wrong.

    I read earlier today that in Germany they have a newer type disc. One that will act as a shock absorber. So now after all of these years they may have finally worked out why some? most? half? (depends what you read) of the ADRS fail. I wish I knew all this before I got mine. I believed my surgeon, the best in Australia I was told with over 2000 implants. Now I wait to see what he will do to me, because I dont think I want to continue to experience this new pain anymore. It gets worse week by week, but no one here knows anything about them. My family doctor and physio are at a loss to understand it all. My physio said just today that he has never seen anything like it and its way beyond him. I cant just pack up and move the 1000kms to be near my surgeon and his team. My family are fixed here, with me in my pain and no longer providing financial support.

    I received a PM overnight from a Bryan located in London UK who has had 2 ADRS and ALIF done, from memory around 2 years ago (need to check that again). He has since received a posterior fusion due to the pain he had after his surgery, so now has fusion both sides. I am waiting to see if they removed his artificial discs as well or left them in. He said he is still in pain, so I am guessing he still has those 2 ADRs because of the serious life threatening nature of removing them.

    Have a look at Mark Forresters experience with Maverick ADRS here:


    What he has had to do to get the ADR removed due to its failure is simply unbelievable. Mark has communicated with me for sometime here by email and apart from reading about his recovery it is fantastic to see him in video now on the way to recovery. From memory it will cost him over $100,000 for this fix for his failed ADR. He travelled to Brasil to the most experienced ADR 'fixup' surgeon Dr Luis Pimenta.

    Maybe you should ask Mark or Dr Pimenta what they think about ADR.

    Sorry for the long winded reply. You see, it really doesnt take a simple yes or no. It requires more research than you believe you need, and then if you are like me (or Mark F) thinking you have done enough, it still may go wrong.

    One last thing - Dr Bertanogli in some of his videos available on google mentions that you should begin your recovery with whatever can be fixed if it goes wrong. I dont think you can fix fusion, and despite them saying ADR can be fixed, I dont look forward to the immense risks on my life that I may now face. And who do I really believe when they offer advice now?

    Dr B also talks about newer technologies, injections of stem cells and many other things too. So you arent restricted to ADR or fusion, but you may have to travel or wait to find it. Just dont make your decision because you have become desperate due to the pain you are in. No responsible surgeon will ever say they can guarantee lowering your pain. They may however suggest as a percentage the liklihood of you being "structurally better" than you are now. And I dont think thats enough if you are structurally ok but still in the debilatating pain cycle you thought had ended.

    Best wishes Mick

  • I'm relatively new to the site, but, I've read many of your posts. You've been through too much and you're still a young man and deserve a life. Making the decision to have spine surgery is never easy and I think we've all spent a lot of time playing out the 'what if' game in our heads. Given all this, if I were in a similar situation, I think I'd take the gamble (though I'm not a wagering type) after doing all my homework to be sure I knew all the pros and cons since ADR seems to be the option that may give you the ability to regain a quality of life. I'm not really versed in ADR, but, I believe from the little I've read that Germany is considered cutting edge with this therapy/surgery. I believe there may also be U.S. facilities that may also be well regarded in ADR use. I know you are in the U.K., hence you must go through the National Health System where patients appear to have a difficult time seeing doctors or even scheduling desperately needed surgery in an expedient fashion. Please forgive my ignorance about the workings of the NHS, but, since you have such an immediate need and a complicated history, is there any chance you could get referred to a facility outside the U.K. to secure whatever treatment you ultimately need faster?
  • and i have PM him and would like to keep in touch .for obvious reasons ,,thanks for the info mick i hope to be talking to you via email or skpye soon
  • we have 2 fine surgeon over here {names not permitted spine health rules} but one of them is in easy reach of me .so its that surgeon that i am wanting to be referred to .i need to get the up to date MRI out of the way first befor i can prosed to the next level ..the referer i believe that this MRI will show massive changes since the last one over a year ago.i have been in so much pain in the last few months its been unbearable and my doctor has had to increase my meds just to keep pace with the pain ,,,let me tel you tears are a regular occurrence due to this relentless back ache and i suppose lack of quality sleep is making matters worse .i am so grateful for the kind people that have given up there valuable time to answer my post and send me PMs and emails .you are all very kind and thoughtful .you know that i have a lot on my mind and i am facing the possibility of major surgery ,so any help goes a long way thank you all
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