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doctors and lies

terror8396tterror8396 Posts: 1,831
edited 06/11/2012 - 8:38 AM in Chronic Pain
once again, i am reading post from various people, especially the ones about doctors who want patients to get off pain meds. doctors will use any excuse, and even lie, yes a doctor will lie to you. one person posted about her doctor wanting her to get off pain meds because they don't help pain after a while, they make it worse. the infamous dr drew of celebrity rehab is famous for his distortions and lies about narcoticsl yes, he even used this excuse on a patient. my favorite lies are when a doctor will med speak to you, knowing well that you have no idea what he is talking about. i had blood in my urine once and he said i had some post menopausal, vernicular hemotob partition of the uretha, i am exaggerating of course but you get my drift. even my current pain dr once tried to get me off because i has swelling in my feet. he said oxyconitn was responsible for this i told him i researched oxy and there was not mention of this side effect at all. i am still on oxy and he does not hastle me. so, when a dr says this and that about pain meds, beware, he does not or want you on narcotics. drs are infamous about their fear of narcotics. they are afraid of getting looked at by the dea and the are also brainwashed by the medical profession and med schools about narcotics. inmho. nerve pain meds and naisd's are given out instead of narcotics because of this fear. for th emost part, these meds have never helped my pain at all. i refuse to take them.
so my pain friends, beware of the excuses doctors give you. i believe a lot of these reasons are bogus
I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.


  • dilaurodilauro ConnecticutPosts: 9,875
    However, this one I can not. Just for the subject line itself, Doctors and Lies I know you have been going to doctors for many years probably about the same length (35years) as I have. We see good and we see bad.
    But, I am totally convinced that the only way a doctor will lie to you is if youlet them. In one of your statements, you talked about the way the 'beat around the bush, or tried to techno themselves around you'
    I know, I dont let that happen to me. Doctors are trained professionals who have gone through many years of schooling and hard hard work to get where they are.
    But they are still human.
    Talking things over with your doctor has always been the best path I've taken. That way there is no such thing as Lies or deception.
    Sure, DEA and recent actions have made it tougher on some doctors, but I firmly believe that a good doctor wont even blink when it come to prescribing a narcotic pain medication to someone who needs it.
    Those doctors have enough confidence in themselves that they know they are doing the right thing.
    I guess I am just saying that associating doctors and lies just rubbed me the wrong way. I've never seen it myself, and I know that it is because of some many great doctors I have had that I am still able to do what I can and stay here and make all the posts that I do
    Ron DiLauro Spine-Health System Administrator
    I am not a medical professional. I comment on personal experiences
    You can email me at: rdilauro@veritashealth.com
  • i am just speaking through personal experience ron. i also believe most are professional and don't lie but there were the 2 incedents that i mentioned. i think when it comes to narcotics, some drs do get cold feet. think the 99% i have had had been honest also. i also know when i mention the pain meds i use, some get a real funny look on their face. remember i said i called my pain dr on his talking about my swelling and how it is related to oxy. i researced it and called him on it. maybe the title was too strong for most people but it gauls me when i see people post about drs hastling them about narcotics
    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • Hello - I don't know if it is lies, but it is something that the Physician - firmly believes. I have a Dr - who is also the chairman of a drug-rehab here in my neck of the woods. I firmly believe that I was set up for the chronic pain, due to his inaction, when I was in pain, and his "notions" about pain meds.

    I have used the "Chronic Pain guidlines from another province, [our province has rules that were researched and written - 18 years ago] Given them to my Dr and asked him to read them and follow them, if it appears that they have merit.

    The thing is - I have become just as educated a patient - in response to unfortunate treatment. I will act on my behalf - with my judgement and do my own research.

    My Dr - also did the, "we have to get you off these", and when I did, I was at ER 3 days later. Pain was out of control and my blood pressure was off the scale high. Within 60 minutes, they had me stable and then told my DR to look after me - becuase he certainly does have pain and chronic pain, due to inaction of Dr's for 25 years.

    Best regards - C45
  • Well I dont know if my PM doctor is lying to me or if she really believes this drivel she is trying to sell me on. She does alot of testing, bloodwork, bio-identical horomones, she has a whole weight loss program at her facility, vitamins, etc. She is spoonfed a lot of this nonsense everyday by people that come into her office, supposed "professionals" not to mention other ways she learns about this stuff. But in the end its her duty as my doctor to know what is legit and what is not, and in my case, hyperalgesia just doesn't fit in my case, so thats a lie, pure and simple.

  • are under a lot of pressure from regulators (DEA, etc) regarding the dispensing of narcotics. I had to sign an agreement with my doctor at the start of my treatment. I get my pain meds from him and only him, and I use one pharmacy. There are so many people who become addicts and abuse the system. I'm grateful to have my oxycodone when I need it, which is every few weeks. I'm hoping some day I won't need it at all, but I have a feeling I will always need it.


    3 level spinal fusion, L3/4, L4/5, L5/S1, November 2008. Stiff, but I can walk.
  • Yep, had to sign a pain contract too, I think thats fairly standard. At my old pm doctors office I could go every 2 to 3 months and inbetween visits they would mail my scripts to me, this doctor does it rather odd I think. She just now put me on every two months BUT I have to pay 10.00 to pick up my script. I don't see the doctor or anything, there is no copay formula in my insurance for this either, why they make everyone pay ten bucks just to pick up a prescption I have no clue. Seems rather silly to me, a way to make a buck I guess. I am going to ask my insurance company about this too, seems odd that she can require this co pay when she is not even seeing me, all I am doing is walking in an picking up the script, I don't know...

  • I totally understand Jon's post. I have had the "drug" experience and made to feel like I wore some king of sign on my head at the doctor and the pharmacy. It was all a big misunderstanding, but it was humilating especially when you are in pain. I have a high pain tolerance, but when I reach it, I just break, like a dam bursts. Doctors are so guilty of having their own notions and not sticking to the medical facts or listening to the patient.

    I recently told my GP that I wanted to get off of narcotics since the embarassing episode and he put me on tramadol. It's been about a month and I've survived but not very well. I have so much pain in the mornings and when I try to do anything like sweep or vaccumn. Even riding in the car gets my pain going. I know now that I am a chronic pain sufferer and need something stronger to be able to live my life.

    I am lucky that my GP is good about pain meds when the others have been horrible about aftercare from surgeries. They will give you 30 pills for 1 every 6 to 8 hours at a time and only call it in when you call in to their prescription request line and leave your info. That lasts me about 12 days and then you have to call again. That's humilating too in a way. They never ask me how is the pain, is it controlled?, etc. I believe they don't want to address it due to being scared of something related to the narcotics awareness.

    I don't understand the big deal. It may sound horrible but I wish the big wigs and doctors that are so worried about pain meds would have some kind of chronic pain just for an hour. That would change their minds in a hurry. Put yourself in our shoes, should be a great campaign against all this "drug" awareness crap.
  • numerous occasions my pain dr tried to use an excuse to get me off oxy when i first met him. my old one retired and he recommended this one. first of all my legs were swollen, this was due to oxy. then i had a kidney infection, due to oxy. i called him on these and he backed off. then he wanted me to write down how much i used each day then when i showed him he did not remember. i have tried to get more personal with him ie joke around, talk about life family, now we don't have these episodes. but at first he was trying like hard and using every excuse in the world to get me off oxy. when i go in now, i do not mention any physical problem i have for fear that he will blame it on oxy. i have kidney problems and i don't use naisds or aspirin, but i am afraid he will blame these on oxy also when in fact research shows oxy does not cause kidney infections, naisd's and aspirin will
    stand up for yourself if you doctor tries to do this
    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • A lot of what you say here is why I'm so afraid of going forward with my issues. The stigma, the need to explain things over and over (I'm an amazing advocate... for everyone but myself. I seem to freeze up when it comes to having to talk about the pain I'm in or needing something not otc)

    Please understand, my GP is a good, compassionate man who, sometimes I think feels my pain. He's been able to get me to talk to him about when things don't work or work anymore and he's changed or increased my meds as needed. The problem is that I spend from the time I wake until the time I get home from work (approximately 12 hours) in miserable pain because I'm afraid to take something narcotic and drive or work-(I drive an hour to and from work where I play with numbers and computers=statistics) My friends at work have noticed the change... the jokes about "the old lady walk" and being "gimp" are no longer so funny... for any of us, since it's so true :( I used to be the first, since I've always had them... they just didn't hurt so much back then.

    I don't want to go out, I can't walk without a cane anymore and even then, it's a matter of feet, I literally broke down in tears trying to explain to the parking boss why I still needed a close space, even though I have permanent HC plates...

    I used to think I had a high tolerance for pain- I walked 5 miles home after being assaulted-with a fractured rib and vertebrae, I walked through 3 casts when I broke my knee, then leg... I've never been one to take more than a bunch of aspirin or advil... and now I take vicoprophen and flexeral the minute I walk in the door. And still I hurt.

    He has suggested a pain management specialist to better help me with the pain I have, since I cannot not work (so no applying for disability, can't afford it). I worry about talking to someone new, I worry about them being like the ortho the last time I tried to get help...I'm afraid that they'll push surgery and blow me off if I refuse it, I worry about starting on meds that I might not ever get off of... and I worry that I'll not be able to stand up for myself and be stuck like this until I can't walk at all anymore. My knees need replacing and I'm not sure I'd be able to recover properly with my back the way it's been.
    It's already been suggested that I consider switching to a walker or 'chair since I have so many problems walking now.

    For those of you that have to deal with that stuff all the time, I support you fully. I am so very glad that you are able to work past all of the garbage that may come your way, and try to work past your pain. I just wish that I felt more assured in being my own advocate.
  • my gp knows of my pain issues, back surgeries, gout, and a history of kidney stones, which have led to one of my kidneys failing and elevated creatine issues. she is pretty good and not judgemental. they have a web site and they list meds, medical problems appts etc. it is a good site. i was looking at my latest blood test and to my surprise, my oxy and fenatyl meds were listed when in fact no doctor in the clinic prescribed them to me. if i am taking meds from other doctors, does the clinic need permission to list them? it says on the site, dr unknown with the oxy and fenatyl. to me that sounds weird and if another dr from another speciality sees this, it might seem that i am dr shopping. i believe that if they are going to list these they need to get my permission and at least list the doctor involved. if my other drs ask, ie urologist or nephrologist, i am honest and tell them
    what say you one and all?
    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • I'm not so sure I would want to go so far as to say medical doctors lie but they do. Or, I should say, they will if it is necessary to get themselves out of a situation where they really practiced bad medicine but need to defend that behavior. That is one of the most difficult factors. Remember the difficulty I had with the goofy psychologist who gave me a "pass" on my psych eval and then went on to renege for no reason explained to me. I'm guessing he was angry with me because I was late to an appointment. I was waiting for my insurance to give the nod on the trial (it was a long wait) I was experiencing what I now know is my annual fall pain flare. So he fabricated this whole appointment where I said "a" and he said "b" and I said "d" and he said "e". (See Put out or Put Out part deux) under my name to get the whole story. I filed a complaint but it went nowhere (surprise. surprise.) I finally, on my last visit, told the pain psychologist at my current pain clinic this story and he was not at all surprised. It seems this
    doctor (the BAD psychologist) has a history of fabricating reports. I was told that there was a young, 24 year old woman on one of the small town police departments. She was a lesbian and had had a fight with her girlfriend that morning and now didn't feel up to going on patrol. She asked to be excused from duty. For some reason or other, she was sent to see Dr. Weird. He had her complete some exams and then sent the exams out for analysis. (He didn't even analyze them himself. When he got the reports back, he went through them, editing out any good, positive comments and simply rewrote the reports in his own words as though he had done the whole thing all along but he took bits and pieces out of context and made them into something they were not. This is very much what he did with me. So, he had already done this when I met him for the first time and because of the way the system is set up, he has an excellent chance of getting away with it. I would say,and often do, that one of the worst parts of my pain experience has been dealing with the docs.. .. not all of them but some of them have been manipulative, dishonest, arrogant, narcissitic and just plain nuts. It is truly unfortunate if you are suffering from chronic pain and you put your hope and trust into one of these doctors and he/she turns into a total manipulative weirdo. Similarly, when you find someone who takes good care of you, make sure you tell them that. And how much you appreciate it. Tell them a lot. Susan
  • I thinking saying doctors lie is just like saying priests lie.

    They both base their decisions on information obtained from the source(s) they view as most credible and correct. I wouldn't assume a doctor is a liar because he believes certain things about narcotic medications any more than I would assume a priest a liar because he believes homosexuality is a sin.

    My disagreement with their beliefs doesn't mean they're liars. It just means we have different points of view; nothing more, nothing less.
  • I have heard a little of that crap as well. My Dr uses the Mankowski scale. I actually track my pain and meds throughout the day in a log. The Mankoski scale is cool becuase it provides some ideas about what you can and can't do. For me I generally wake up in the 5's and progress to 7 or 8 by noon.

    So when my Dr hinted about my appearence not matching my pain, I called him on it. I basically told him I was a former Marine, raised by a 36 Year Veteran, and that I wasn't a EDITED. As a matter of fact I tend to hide pain so I can keep my job. Since I had my double fusion in Aug 2008, my pain has doubled and the number of symtoms have increased. Some of the new problems are pretty bad such as Neuogenic Bladder. What sucks is I work at Microsoft and have the best job in the company IMHO. The last thing I want to do is lose my job and become some lounge lizard. It has taken me 2 years of psychotherapy to even admit my pain.

    So just the mere hint of some crap like hyperalgesia becuase Rush Limbaugh abused the system really EDITED me off. I don't need to be fighting my Dr for pain meds as the VA provides plenty of opportunity for argument. Stress is a big trigger for pain and I can do without it as I hve enough problems.

    But that is just my humble opinion.

    Post Edited for Inappropriate Language by Authority Member haglandc
  • I had to sign one too. I don't mind that as given all the BS with pain meds these days, I don't mind having my Dr's back as long as he is helping me out.

    What I am curious about is, are there any people who have had a fusion surgery that came out fixed? The only people I see or hear from are those who are like me and are in more pain with more problems than before the surgery.
  • I have had a hard time accepting my pain and problems. Had to go see a Psychologist for 2 years before I would accept it. Which by the way is the first step in coping with pain.

    My take on the whole deal is that Pain Management is really about short term care meaning 1 maybe 2 years of pain, max. When you get to chronic long term back pain that goes past a year. Its an entirly different ballgame. Very few are spared the whole embarrassing problem of being accused or hinted at of suffering from hyperalgesia.

    The Dr has to be able to handle or at least collaborate with a good psychologist in helping the patient accept the pain. Walking around with a cane was a big thing for me as well. I still hide it to this day. Its at this time, that you also begin to start to have work problems.

    But here is the big problem IMHO with Pain Management. Once you get to the end of treatments/procedures and surgeries for whatever your problem is, mine is back. There are a few things you have to come to grip with.

    1. More than likely you are going to be on pain meds the rest of your life.
    2. More than likely these meds are going to screw you up. Eventually you are not going to be able to drive, think straight, sound like your drunk all the time, etc...
    3. Eventually you are going to lose your job as no employer can tolerate or risk the effects of Pain Management drugs for too long.
    4. Your going to have go back to psychology to learn how to deal with being stuck as a lounge lizard. I define myself by my work as many people do in a lot of ways. When you lose this, it is remarkably painful on your psyche. So you have to reinvent yourself to accomidate whatever the problem is.
    5. If this isn't bad enough, now you have to deal with the Long Term Disability crap, SSDI or Veteran Affairs Crap. All of which try to screw you at every opportunity or at least make your life as hard as they can. As if you needed one more thing to make your life a living hell.

    The long Term Pain Management treatment in this country needs a major overhaul to say the least. As well as the LTD, SSDI and VA. Thats as far a I can share as I am fighting with the VA. It sucks, but it is at least the reality I have had to deal with.
  • This is your GP, right? that posted your pain meds that were prescribed by another doctor? I have told my GP about the pain meds that my NS prescribed and whether or not I'm on them currently and how it's going. During my postop time after my lumbar surgeries, my previous NS had released me, but I was still in pain, so my GP prescribed the same for me. The thing is..if there's a place for doctor's name, why don't you ask them to put the correct doctor's name in there? It's just a database and some office person just keys in from the doctor's notes or nurse's questions. I think if you've told them all the meds you are taken, they are okay to put them all on your "profile". Their stance will be that knowing all your meds helps them with interactions and any problems caused by the meds....even though I'm not sure that doctors really know all about the meds they prescribe.

    I've asked about some symptoms of the tramadol that are noted on the prescription insert and even my GP, who is pretty good to me, said "nope, not a problem". I wanted to take in the insert info, but decided it was to my best interest not to. I don't want to jinx my relationship with him just yet. Most doctors don't get it that some patients are intelligent, interested in their health, and want to be a part of the decisions. We all don't fall into the same cookie cutter. Otherwise, we'd all look the same and there wouldn't be DNA and all that identification differences. Good doctors are one in a million from my experience. Maybe we should encourage them with cakes, cards, and flowers? LOL

    I wish my GP had such a website. I hate having to wait for bloodwork results and then you just get the "you're normal" and not the values. I've found that requesting the values sometimes, not everything was normal. So seeing everything would be a huge plus. My experience on talking with others though, is that they'd never use it. Seems like most people aren't "into" their health. They are drones.

  • when doctors invent reasons so they don't have to give you narcotics, what is that? I know that oxy by itself does not cause foot swelling or kidney problems. the naisds can cause kidney problems. so if my dr says you need to get off oxy because you are swelling if that is not a fabrication, then what is it. and yes priests lie also especially when it comes to child abuse. i don't know of another word to use if someone makes up a story to influence their or your opinions.
    so for the benefit of others, let's say they are influenced by fear of the dea
    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • The issue of Oxycontin and swelling of the feet and legs is pretty clearly addressed right in the package insert.


    Page 19
    The following adverse reactions occurred in less than 1% of patients involved in clinical trials or were reported in postmarketing experience.

    ~snip side effects irrelevant to this thread~

    General disorders and administration site conditions: chest pain, edema, facial edema, malaise, pain, peripheral edema, thirst, withdrawal syndrome (with and without seizures)
    A low incidence of certain side effects doesn't mean the concerns are based on lies. The incidence of people winning the lottery is low too, but that doesn't mean all the stories of lottery winners are lies.

  • it is amazing for the past year-s every time i post, you will always take an issue with my posts. if you have a personal problem with me save it. 1% means hardly ever happening. stastically 1% is negligable. my swelling is due to kidney problems I saw a kidney doctor had tests and he confirmed this diagnosis.. and when i post every time it is everytime you will take issue with me
    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • If you wanted to push it with your GP, you could call the kidney doctor or go back to them and get their confirmation that your pain meds aren't a problem, that your kidneys are. Take this back to you GP and tell him where to put it. hahaha. That should shut him up. I'm with you on getting heated up when they insist they are so right and you, the lowly paying patient, are so wrong. You've had so much happen to you (from your signature line) that I just want to say a big Southern "Bless you heart". No one should have to prove anything just to have pain relief.
  • Hello Greg,

    I am very sorry that you are still in pain. As far as your question, if are there any
    people who get fixed with fusion surgery, well, I am one of those lucky once. My back is pain-free, only if I could stop the clock and the rest of my body (knee, shoulder, hip, fingers) would not hurt, it would be wonderful. But I can't ask for everything, or can I?

    Wishing you the best, or at least freedom from pain,

  • I made a long post and of course it disappeared,hate when that happens.
    Anyways, I so agree with bionicwoman and Ron on there thoughts on this topic.
    There are bad doc's and great docs, bad mechanics,and great mechanics. awful teachers and others simply picking up a pay check. It is in all occupations, not just the medical community.
    Personally i feel that there is personal responsibility, if you are not being heard or you cannot work with the doctor and the staff, it is on you the patient to move on.
    I have to say i have done that myself and also i am grateful for all my doctors that have helped me through the many medical conditions and surgeries i have had. It is my responsibility to be as informed, and to participate in my care. Demanding meds does not fly with, nor should it. That is my opinion.
    I am so grateful for the wonderful care i have received and for the doctors that have saved my life, as well as the nurses and all that have helped me through very rough times. At no time have i had to dumb it down or have felt i have been lie to, nor the need to get chummy in order to have my medical issues addressed, I don;t have the time for that, nor do the doctors and the surgeons. I expect them to be professional and i am the patient, and keep an open mind to all treatment offered to me. I do go by with kindness and gratitude to all of them. They have all said to me " We Will Get Through This" a team effort, and i am part of that team
    I have been dealing with chronic pain for the last 4 years, as well as mini strokes and a brain aneurysm, and a total of 3 trips to my brain to check on things.
    I really feel that doctors owe me the truth to my situations, and a treatment plan. That plan does not always include narcotics, nor should it. When it does not i don't go in with trying to prove otherwise.
    I am a firm believer that doctors as well as SH is about seeing people through, not seeing through people. I try and live by that and always try and find a giggle along the way. In so many ways I ( we) are blessed. Guess it is all how you want to look at it.

    Just my thought....seems to be more about oxy then doctors though.

  • I don't have any issues with you. I just disagree with your perspective on this topic. Last time I checked, disagreeing was allowed on this board.

    As far as the 1% meaning it hardly ever happens - if every member of Spine-Health took an oxycodone-based medication (Oxycontin, Oxy IR, Percocet, etc.), "hardly ever happens" means 110 people would suffer that side effect. I suppose you could ask patwhite101 about it not happening, since she's posted about her struggles with this particular non-existent side effect.

    If you really believe your doctor is just telling you lies on this topic and you're absolutely certain he's wrong about your edema, then as an informed patient you have every right to keep "calling" your doctor on his "faulty" knowledge. However, it's both irresponsible and dangerous to declare on a public board that you've researched the issue and that swelling of the legs and feet is not a side effect of Oxycontin/oxycodone and that doctors who express concerns over this side effect are liars.

    The information in my posts is information contained in the package insert, so it's not like it's all that hard to find when "researching" an issue. It doesn't include any information from the dozens of post-market clinical studies involving Oxycontin or the issues explored based on adverse effects experienced by the larger pool of post-market patients and/or special populations.

    Frankly, with the amount clinical research and information currently available to physicians, in my opinion the doctor that needs to be "called out" is the one that doesn't closely examine the drug regimen in a patient that presents with peripheral edema and a known history of renal problems.

  • I agree with everything you said. I happen to have a great Doc that worked me up to Oxy when everything else failed, and didn't hesitate because of any stigma or anything else. It was about me and my options for dealing with me pain. And when it came time to give up the Oxy because it was causing me severe depression, one call, and he switched my meds to get me through until my surgery. After surgery he made me aware that I had to at least go on Percocet, which I did, but started to weaned myself off as soon as possible he was just as supportive and told me congrats for my progress. And when I couldn't seem to get below 2 Perc a day, he switched me to vicodin so I would have an easier time weaning myself off meds completely.

    Basically, my Doc has listened to me every step along the way, made sure I understood my options, and did everything he could to make me comfortable and get me through all my struggles.

    Do bad Drs exist? Of course. Is it appropriate to generalize? Absolutely not.
  • as i said bionic woman, i am in awe of your expertise. but like i said you take pleasure in flamming others and to put them down. every post and every post you have retorted is this flame. others have e-mailed me and agree that your superiority and comments are bordering on down right rude.
    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • and then get back (and stay) on topic?

    Thank you !
  • unfortunately, oxycontin has become the big boogie man of the medical profession. Every negative article one reads is usually about oxy and i believe it started a few years ago with the label, hillbilly heroin which referred to a community in the east coast where people took it and ground it up for a better high. now one can't read about oxy without negative connotations about it. with this comes paranoria from doctors and the idea that it is a bad drug that is abused. yes it can be like all drugs. it has become like the fen=fen craze about 20 years ago where the hysteria in the media basically made the drug unaviable. i am afraid that is goint to happen to the oxy especially when there are all these negative articles written about it. this is why doctors will, let's say use exaggerations so they won't have to prescribe it. or at best say, i won't give that drug out because of it's addictive potential. if that is the case, then tell the patient why you won't give it out, you are afraid of it's addictive potential. i would feel better if that were given as an excuse. remember my favorite excuse is from the infamous doctor drew on celebrity rehab, if you take oxy it will make your pain worse. look at the show and this is his mantra.

    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • That is correct. Hillbilly heroin. I remember hearing about it waaaay back. And was shocked as all get-out when my doctor prescribed it to me (along with MSContin). I remember thinking "She must be nuts!" I told her about my reservations on the drug. She said if we have a problem down the road, we will address it, but that for now, this is what she felt would help.

    I am glad there are still doctors like her who are not afraid to prescribe proven treatment to her patients.

    She also has signs posted on the doors where you come in and leave, the wall by the elevators, in the elevators (I guess just in case you haven't seen those) and on the walls in the waiting room that there are "UNDERCOVER NARCOTIC AGENTS ON DUTY" and "Anyone caught selling their prescriptions will be kicked out of the clinic and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law".

    Plus, I am tested every month when I go. My contract states I may be subject to pill counts. Maybe my day is coming, who knows? So, she has what I perceive to be safe-guards in place. I am sure she is held accountable, and may be on the DEA's radar for having prescribed the drug... But, she's a PAIN MANAGEMENT DOCTOR for heaven's sake! Not a regular doctor. So, I guess I am fortunate to have found her in the very beginning.

    Jon - I hope your doctor wisens up and soon.
  • the only thing i have had to do is sign a contract with my pain dr, no urine or blood tests or pill counts. i have been with him for almost 2 years. i believe he checks insurance forms to see if you are getting meds somewhere else. he has mentioned about his 15 day letter where he kicks you out of his practice if you attempt to break the contract. i believe if he suspects you he will check up on you. i am up and up on board with him. i stay within the law of his contract. he is basically a good guy eventhough at first he tried to get me off meds. now i don't get hastled by him and we have a good working relationship, i think. i still feel like i am going to the principal's office when i see him though. i never know what will happen or what mood he is in
    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • Of course, as a nurse, I have to play devil's advocate! This will sound snottier than it's intended, and I'm sure I'll make people mad...but: Although patients DO need to educate themselves about their disease process, and advocate for themselves and represent themselves with their medical professionals, researching on the internet, reading package inserts, or even discussing issues on forums does not a medical degree make. I understand that kidney issues CAN cause edema, but who's to say that it isn't occurring IN CONJUNCTION with your oxy. Maybe your MD is trying to change the medication to see what efect it may have on the edema (if it's being viewed as threatening--unsure if it is). The insert only states what happens in the drug trial...who's to say your MD hasn't seen, in his own practice, many patients have edema that resolved with the discontinuation of oxy!? I work with a wonderful MD, and I have an awesome PCP myself, that has managed my pain meds with great respect to my needs and requests. I know not all Dr's are saints with angelic bedside manners, but they aren't the bad guy. The bad guy is the dealers, sellers, and abusers who have made the medical community wary of phoneys. In my experience the DEA really doesn't have a whole lot to do with Dr's being cautious with narcotics. Believe me, every MD with a pt on narcotics has a well-documented file on why, what, where and for. The problem, again from my experience, is that they are caught in an ethical dilema. They have to walk that fine line between controlling your pain, weeding out seekers, monitoring for dependence, taking in the body as a whole and the effects of both pain and meds, the whole while having the patient come in as an armchair MD telling them (in so many words) that their a liar and they don't know what their doing. In short, with the basic narcotic debate in this thread, they try the best they can to determine if they are controlling pain or feeding addiction. To not control pain does harm (as in "first do no harm"), but so does being an enabler.

    I'm in a unique position as a nurse and a chronic pain patient. I've tried to help remind both MD's & help them to understand some of the unique things we deal with, and that our medical presentation will be vastly different from acute patients. The times I've seen my MD discharge someone from our practice, it was for abusing the narcotics he prescribed in good faith after much chance giving and counseling. He has also gone to battle with patients that were wanting to take meds that were not appropriate, unsafe, or too much (despite what the patient thought). It's his responsibility to act in the best interest of the patient, whether that chaps their butt or not. As stated above, there is always the option to go to someone else if you do not feel you're being treated well, or honestly. I'm sure eventually you'll find someone without integrity that will tell you what you want to hear and let you dictate your own healthcare.

    As for the hyperalgia "BS", it isn't. There have been papers published and studies done showing that chronic pain and chronic narcotic use can re-wire your brain and receptors to be MORE responsive to otherwise benign stimuli. I also had a very interesting talk with a notalble PSYCHIATRIST that specializes in pain (works in Chapel Hill with universities), and disussed his belief that this exists--and is (at this point) believed to be irreversable. I am experiencing this myself, and anyone who has been on strong narcotics, like I have, can tell you that post-op pain is harder to control because of the tolerance to the medication. At some point you will hit a ceiling in dosing and your body will metabolize the medication too quickly to be effective--making everything painful. People often forget the HUGE risk of respiratory depression! ie-take your meds, go to sleep, stop breathing, die!

    Doctors, with rare exception, are in their position to help people. No one would go through the hell and expense to try and treat people like crap. They aren't liars. They are highly educated, responsible, trustworthy people that choose to take your life into their hands and are willing to answer for it at the end of the day. You can't even get most people to take responsibility for farting in an elevator for God's sake! (had to lighten the mood a little) =))

    Sorry my speech was so long....insomnia and a soap box is a bad mixture! I just couldn't let this go without representing the other side. I don't mean to "hate" on anyone, I don't know anyone here....just my viewpoint on the statements already commented on!
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