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  • Dave,

    I am sure that decision did NOT come easy. Hopefully she will get the help she needs, and too this community will come back to its normalcy. I think some "lines in the sand were drawn", hopefully they too will fade. :)

    PCTF C4 - T2, Laminectomies C5, C6 & C7. Severe Palsy left arm/hand.
  • Dave,

    I think you did her a favor, and I'm sure you provided some guidance to her to seek out some help for some of her apparent issues. All in all, I think it was a very humane thing to do. I applaud your action on behalf of CS's best interests.

    Take Care,
  • Dave, I think you made the right choice. From her posts, I believe she needs the kind of help that can not be offered here and this will hopefully encourage her to find that help where she can get it.

    I know you didn't take this lightly, but applaud your decision.

  • CS, Dave i also feel you did the right thing.
    She might go find another forum to join, but hopefully for her sake she will go find the proper medical treatment that she needs.

    Spine Health encourages compassion and caring for all members here, and it was sad the way some attacked her.
    No responce would have been better then some of the responces she got.
  • +1, right on, I agree (where is that button? :))( ) I think it's the best decision as well, for both her and the community. I too, also hope she seeks out the help she needs from professionals, and not sites like ours.

    We can only say so much on forums like this, people either accept and act on advice, or they don't, no matter how many times, or how many different ways you try to give it.

    Thanks to all of the team, for doing such a hard job, and looking out for everyone's best interests.
    APROUD CANADIANveteranButNOTa doctor, my thoughts are my own
  • Dave, I just wanted to send out a Thank you to ALL of the Mods!! Not for this removal but for the diffecult and wonderful job that you all do!!

  • This site is not a caring site no more, i am gonna say my peace, i feel there was a injustice done to her, it has been done to other people to, it is the main reason i have stayed away, i was attacked just because i disagreed with medical marijuana, i feel that was wrong, no on stuck up for me too, that's sad, i feel this is not a caring site when members have nothing better to do then attack other members....
  • I have to disagree with your comments. This site has more caring members than any others I've seen. People who are genuinely concerned for the welfare of others. When an individual creates the situation that causes more hurt and harm to others, the situation has to be weighed. Where is the most harm being done and what is the most prudent course of action to take. There are no cut and dry guidelines and these decisions are not made on a whim. The situation was discussed over and over for days amongst the admins, mods and authority team members. Yes there is and was concern for the individual, but there was also great concern for the multitude of other members who stood to lose out on the support of Spine Health as well.

    I'm sorry that you have felt the need to stay away from Spine Health. I can't even recall any discussion in regards to medical marijuana that you were involved in. I can guarantee that if you needed to post something or drop into chat, that the members of Spine Health would and will be there for you.


  • BC90 - I hear you! Recently there have been a lot of things come to a head, and blow over, on several fronts. I cannot speak to your issue, but regardless of which of the question you are on, i would like to hear you.

    I know that I have had to self edit and remove myself from the site, a couple of times, because I felt that I would not help the situation.

    And - for those very same reasons - the new person and the old guard, I wanted to hang around and try to provide a calm voice. I still am trying to do that, without being afraid of getting jabbed. I have thick skin, but I am not going to try to aggravate anyone, on any level.

    I deal with CP every day, why would I try to post stuff here, to hurt someone, because [on a karmic level] it actually hurts me and affects my pain levels.
  • Sorry C I don't agree, but I do agree with BC90 and Cory. This site has changed so much since May that it's scary. The caring, helping, and compassion seems to have gone. I know not everything we go through as spineys is pleasant, nor will everyone agree on a statement. But it can be put tactfully, where it will help, instead of harm.
    Bobbi Jo
  • I think there are plenty of caring, sensitive people on this site. I just seams that they are getting drowned out and turned off by the negativity of the posts. Lately some have just been downright nasty.

    I am not saying that we all need to be lovey-dovey and all kinds of sweetness, but there is absolutely no need to interogate, belittle and publicly flog someone who is here for help. As Blazer said, no response would have been better than the ones CS and others have received lately.

    I sincerely hope that things will change around here. This site has been a Godsend for me and many, many others trying to cope with our chronic pain issues, as well as help each other, hopefully we can get it together.

    Thanks for listening, I had to get that off my chest.

  • dilaurodilauro ConnecticutPosts: 9,859
    Change is inevitable. Especially when the user population continues to grow and grow. Some of the change we have all seen is from:

    - Negative Posting
    - Members attacking members
    - Members not posting the truth
    - Spammers/Solicitors/etc

    Back in 2006 with 3,000 members and a more forum friendly software, things were eaiser. If any member stepped out of line, the rest of the community would make sure that did not continue.

    Its impossible to do that today. There are so many different personalities and then complicate that with all the various medical problems. Today , I see more 'groups' then I did before. There may be a group of 5 to 10 members that stick together and no matter what one says, or if others disagree, they ban together to fight.

    Can we stop that? No, in fact, that is not even on my list of priorities for making sure this site continues to provide solid and positive support to its members. I have said this before, the owners of this site, everyone on the Admin/Moderator/Authority staff work to see that the majority is being taking care of. We cant spend time dealing with a couple of people's problems that go on and on. Some folks just love to argue. My take is, we need to focus in on everyone, not just a few.

    Will some people think they are being mistreated? Yes
    Will some people think the positive support isnt there any more? Yes
    Will some people disagree to disagree? Yes


    Will some people do whatever they can to help others?
    Will members aid others that they dont even know? Yes

    There is so much positive here. I dont want to sound naive and think that there is no negative here.. Because there is.

    The owners of the site set up these forums as a means for people helping people. Everything was done in a positive fashion and hopefully to create a comfortable environment for everyone.

    I wish I could say that all the negative was going to go away and that there would be only positive support and that everyone will get along....

    Its a nice thing to wish for, but we also have to be realistic.

    The only thing I can ask of everyone, is that the problems people talk about come from members about other members. I do hope that its not because of what this site stands for and what its objectives are. So, for a more positive and supportive environment, I am asking you, the member community to help make it that way.

    Thank you
    Ron DiLauro Spine-Health System Administrator
    I am not a medical professional. I comment on personal experiences
    You can email me at: rdilauro@veritashealth.com
  • Here Here Ron!! Very well said!!
  • I mostly stay out of the forum drama. For i seen my share of it in chat. Sometimes it bleeds from the forums in to chat and some of us are blind sided, not even knowing what brought it on. Not to agree is perfectly ok in my book. As long as its kept in a form of a healthy disagreement which some dont seem to understand. I think if a person comes on line in to the forum or chat with the triger finger attitude, they will always find an argument. I welcome any disagreement anyone may have as long as its on the topic that we are here to find answers for. Personal attacks are not the way to do it. Thats not a way to suport. And why is there always people that cant just accept the moderators ,or authority teams decision is beyond me. I learned in the past they have a beter eye for this then most of us. I am sure they did not deside based on just 1 incident . I been fooled by a few people in the past who were fake and i never seen it but they did. For they keep up with there posts and activity on the site. I dont care how long a member has been here, none of us are above the rest and cant just say and do as we please, just cause we are long time members. If i went beyond what i am allowed and bashed someone in spine health, or anything of the sort.And was warned and i ignored that warning. That would just make me ignorant. So if i got banned for that. i would take it like a man and not expect members to further the drama on the mater. If it was up to me, i would pack your bags and put you on the same short buss that member who was banned is on. Just for always taking a position against the authority team who are actualy trying to keep order on spine health. And the last time i looked they are also spine patients dealing with there pain issues. Its like trying to control Romper room from what i am reading on some of the posts. Alex
    Flexicore ADR 2004 resulting nerve damage l4l5 Fusion 2006 same level, 2009 hardware removal with lami !
    2012 scs implant ,
  • What I have learned from this is that it is best for me, at least, to just ignore the posts from those that seek to escalate anything posted that they do not agree with, to a witch-burning.

    It saves me a bit of my sanity, it keeps me from dropping to a level I would like to avoid (not that it hasn't happened....it has :( )and, if others follow suit, it might allow things to get back to how it was before... perfect? no, but bearable, friendly, non-threatening...a place to meet up with others that have gone through or are going through some of the same issues we are.

    We are not doctors... we see that and read it over and over again...but we are also not here as clinicians or diagnosticians and I'd like to see it stay that way. If for some reason someone is in fact one then I would hope that professional ethics, (ha-ha) at least, would make them say as much when they post.

    We are all allowed to agree to disagree, we are not or rather should not, be allowed to try to force our personal feelings about certain things down others throats until they either run away or are run off by the rabble-rouser's.

    Send a pm if it's burning a hole in your mind, report it to a moderator if you must, but please stop the public flogging. It's ugly, useless and creates more pain than it could ever heal.

  • I gave CS situation and all that came from it some thought yesterday.
    I honestly don't think that "intervening", counseling, supporting or anything else you call it will help anyone who is misusing their treatments ( NOT saying she was) or other wise is off kilter. At least not in a forum such as ours.. That is to be left to Drs, family, friends and others in their off line world most of the time.

    Why do I think this way? Well being a member here as well at some other non CP forums I have not ever seen 1 person change their ways, that others thought needed changed.

    So I guess my thought on how to handle these situations in the future is to be polite with basic nonchalant talk and other wise ignore the "issues".
    :neutral:" alt=":neutral:" height="20" />
    L1 - S2 "gone" useless in 1 way or another. DDD. RA. Bone Spurs. Tons of nerve damage/issues. Stenosis. Both knees replaced. 50 yrs old. I had a great fall (hence my user name) at age 41 and it has been a domino effect every since.
  • it is a shame that anyone is treated badly on SH because they are "different and seem to be suffering from some other problems." this is not the first time i have seen SH members treat someone badly, but i do hope it will be the last! those members that took matters into their own hands ought to feel ashamed of themselves!! i do hope SH spineys show their love and caring to ALL members who might drop by and stay for awhile.. Jenny :)
  • To what Jenny has said. O:)

    Unfortunately, I don't believe those members feel one bit ashamed of being intrusive and calculating.

    Just my honest opinion.

    I do support Dave's decision and applaud the warnings that were issued.

  • Simple THANK YOU to Dave for ALL that you, admins and mods as well as the site owners do for us daily. You made a difficult decision and IMHO the correct decision for our best interest and to protect the integrity of the site, and yes, even for CS it was the right move.

    I pray she finds the help she needs and deserves. I hope and pray for peace & unity in SH.

  • Well, I sure hope that you two know for sure who was being "calculating and intrusive." Because I will say I did my best to help her in the best way I knew how, and yet apparently (or so I was told) the rumor mill had me down as being the leader of the "caluclating and intrusive" gang. Or maybe it was just one rumor mill, who knows how many there are? I have also read that at least one new poster has received "warnings" of a specific poster within hours of his arrival here (a poster not all of us would find offensive, by the way). Wow, that's quite an active grapevine!

    Wow, the rumor mill. How hurtful is THAT monster? No matter what you do, people make their minds up about you, and they are right because "everybody says so." You would have needed hip boots to wade through my inbox there for a while, because "everybody" must be right.

    I did not receive a warning from the admins for my treatment of CS or of any other person on spine-health during this, by the way. But I received the much dreaded notice, that "everybody" knows what I am and dislikes me for it. So whether or not the rumor mill was actually paying attention to my posts or just making things up as they went along, the damage was done.

    So I would respectfully ask that people stop asking others to be ashamed, or saying that certain people should just stop posting because it drives them nuts- there was plenty to be ashamed of on both sides of the argument, and plenty of people are hurting now.

    And I would say that if one thing can split a community, and I know Ron knows this, it's a malicious rumor mill that makes a point of bringing new posters into a clique with "warnings" of other posters.

  • I have never been involved in any kind of "rumor mill"?

    I'm not into gossip... not my "thang"!

    My "thang" is to offer support to others within a compassionate community.

    I totally agree with what Jenny said and stand by what I posted, as well.

    No one knows the members I was thinking of, when making my post above, except myself.

    But, there are those that will "assume".



  • Rumor mill sending PM's to newbies ??? Warning them of members,, wow, this is something I have never heard of,,, and I really hope it is not true.

    I must say, I have had disagreements with ppl, ingnore many, and chat with even more. I have found this site for the most part to be a great resourse, with great members. Of course there are gonna be issues, look how many are using it.

    My kudos to the fellow spineys who run, read, respond, monitor, post, and are supportive, we are all in pain, different levels, different reasons, but one thing in common brings us here.

    Any newbies reading this, look around, read, you will see lots of good doctor written blurbs, and much personal experiece from fellow spine suffers.
  • Rumor mill sending PM's to newbies ??? Warning them of members,, wow, this is something I have never heard of,,, and I really hope it is not true.

    I must say, I have had disagreements with ppl, ingnore many, and chat with even more. I have found this site for the most part to be a great resourse, with great members. Of course there are gonna be issues, look how many are using it.

    My kudos to the fellow spineys who run, read, respond, monitor, post, and are supportive, we are all in pain, different levels, different reasons, but one thing in common brings us here.

    Any newbies reading this, look around, read, you will see lots of good doctor written blurbs, and much personal experiece from fellow spine suffers.
  • From a chronic pain sufferer and a health care professional. We have been requested to give support not professional advice on the forum, and know that I must try to take great care in not crossing the line.

    With this girl (CS), it appeared that she is a person in deep trouble, and needs professional help and maybe an intervention asap. To me, this forum is not a place for someone at that stage. She was given many nudges by members to see her physicians, yet she remained non-compliant.

    Her situation really upset me because I worry about her fate. In saying that...her significant other, family or close friends need to be the ones helping this woman now. She appears definitely a person in crisis.

    I don't think that we can make an positive impact on her, and her posts made me scared for her and sad. I'm glad that Dave made this decision. There are other people new to the site and those who still need significant support that the moderators needed to think about as well.

    For the above reasons I never replied to her posts and because I honestly did not know what I could do to help her; but do believe that we absolutely should comply with our treatment plan to hopefully obtain the best quality of life that we can.


  • I have to agree with both Lisa, and with HappyHBmom. I did reply and comment on some of her posts after much contradiction (by me) was observed, and too like Lisa stated, there was obvious issues going on with CS. I agree, NO we aren't medical professionals, but we are pretty knowledgeable on noting inconsistencies and outright snow up our butts!

    Like HB, I did not receive a warning, as I did not violate SH rules. I gave up my posting as I saw that no matter what I or anyone else said, the same outward blames (other sources, never her) were the cause, or people were judging her. This site is not for "chronic pain", it is for spine, and spine related issues - of which even when directly asked by at least 2 members, none was offered. Don't get me wrong, I 'felt' for her, but tired of the lies, inconsistencies, and blame game - as did many others. New members however not seeing the "whole" thread picture, might have felt she was being attacked. Because of this rumors and lines got drawn in the sand sadly!!

    HB, I agree with what you posted as well. I am sorry to hear you got PM's like that. I too like another poster in here, didn't know that was going on...sad and hurtful for sure!! I of course did NOT see you as a bully or hurtful. This is a wonderful site full of really good people. Unfortunately once in a while a bump happens, and that is what this was. I am on the "other site" she is on (but for another medical issue), and she is getting pretty much a rubber stamp response from the members on that site! So, to me, it validated what many of us felt here, her problems can't be helped here sadly. I still stand fully by what *I* posted, and still agree fully with Dave's final decision. Peace all! :)

    PCTF C4 - T2, Laminectomies C5, C6 & C7. Severe Palsy left arm/hand.
  • I don't know much about this forum and I certainly don't know about this woman who had her account closed. I'm just sad to hear that someone can't come here for help anymore. To me it just seems very sad but, like I said I'm new here so maybe it was needed and i'm sure it WAS a tough decision.
    Rumours are always nasty and mean. TTLC, your post made me smile! :) Have a super day
  • Aviatrix36440 said:

    HB, I agree with what you posted as well. I am sorry to hear you got PM's like that. I too like another poster in here, didn't know that was going on...sad and hurtful for sure!! I of course did NOT see you as a bully or hurtful.
    Thank you, Brenda.

    I didn't really post hoping for pity (I already got my hugs from you!), but to really make clear that this whole kerfuffle had more to it than many know, and that made it into a bigger thing than it needed to be.

    Now, people can let their anger go and move on.
  • daisy mae said:
    Rumours are always nasty and mean. TTLC, your post made me smile! :) Have a super day
    Wishing you a super day as well, Daisy. :D

  • When individuals have a difficult time responding in a responsible manner something has to be done to ensure the health and safety of the board. As Lisa nicely pointed out, CS was/is way beyond the abilities of most if not all on this board to help. However, there are many who are still here that we as a community are more than capable of helping.

    What we need to keep in mind, is that constantly going at one another in one manner or another is one of the most destructive forces we can unleash. Also the hinting of hidden agendas and innuendo can be just as devastating and destructive to an on line community.

    Please know that when it got to the point where long and short term members were on the verge of making regrettable mistakes, the decision was made to diffuse the situation. The best thing we can do from this point is to move on and to focus on those who are here now and those to come.

  • HB,

    Nope, you're not one to post for it! I'm actually glad you let us know that was happening. I got some PM's while I was posting to her, but nothing that I can call mean. More so questions as to why I focused on this or that, or why did *I* feel this or that? After a while I decided that there were tons more folks on here that helped draw me here. People in similar boats as I wanting or giving answers that mutually help, and others with issues I may be facing that I can learn from. Venting or helping others that needed to vent etc. Much better ways to spend my energy. :)

    I fully agree with your closing there. I too hope the anger and lines in the sand can fade, and we return to what this site is: Giving and getting support, answers, comparing notes, asking opinions, etc. The list is endless. 8>

    PCTF C4 - T2, Laminectomies C5, C6 & C7. Severe Palsy left arm/hand.
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