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Twitching eyelid after neck surgery???

I have been having a twitching right eyelid every day, but not constantly, since my 2 level ACDF (C3/4/5).

I have just read a post where someone has said that they have a twitching eyelid since their neck fusion. This made me wonder if it is caused by the neck fusion.

Has anyone else started to get this after a neck surgery?
If so, were you told what caused it?



  • Although my vision seems to have deteriorated a bit. I feel I could use stronger readers.
    I wonder if some nerve was affected during surgery.

    4 level ACDF completed on January 3rd.
    I developed an infection which required reopening the wound on January17th
    Looking forward to life without as much pain!

  • Yes, I feel like I need stronger glasses too.
    I am due to get my eyes tested in a month or two.
    I think I will have to get some stronger glasses.

    When my eye twitches, my vision jumps in that eye.
  • Hi
    Look at a problem called horners syndrome. See if it falls close to what you are going through.
    It may not be what is wrong but I have seen it with cervical surgery and my Dad ended up with it after a central feeding line was changed on him and they hit the nerves in his neck.

    Otherwise how are you doing now. Its been awhile.

  • jellyhalljjellyhall Posts: 4,373
    edited 03/06/2013 - 3:29 AM
    for your reply. :-)

    I did look at the symptoms for Horner's Syndrome, but I don't think I have that.
    I did wonder if this could be caused by the same nerve being disturbed but a very mild form that only causes twitching.

    I do know that a twitching eye is a common problem and can mean nothing at all. However, this right eyelid seemed to start twitching after my neck surgery and it is much more frequent than the usual twitching eyelid. It twitches everyday, several times a day, for up to 5 minutes at a time. Hopefully it is not something that has been disturbed and will go away soon. It is irritating!

    As far as my recovery is concerned, I did still have my symptoms and so an now taking Gabapentin/Neurontin. I will wean off before seeing my surgeon again to see how I 'really' am without masking the symptoms.

    How about you, how are you doing? :-)

  • sorry to hear everything isn't alot better for you but time is still on your side. My Dad had horners and in pain management I met two people with it also. Yes it can effect people more then others.Its normally a accident when a nerve around the artery gets nicked.
    Looking back before my cervical fusion I remember a twitch also and both sides of my face would also go numb like a stroke. They didn't believe me because they said that would almost be impossible. Then one day in PT just before surgery it happened and my therapist could even tell by looking at me. After surgery the numbness and small twitch went away. Docs said for both sides to happen at the same time was like millions to one odds because they felt the same nerve root on both sides would have to be pinched at the same exact time. Later we found it was cord damage.
    Which at that time we didn't know or expect it. Like I said surgery helped me in that issue.

    The last year has been interesting with problems going up and down, mostly down. I have the L4,5,S1 issues with nerve and nerve root damage. Just found out my body did a self fusion of L4 to L3 in three almost even places.
    My cervical C5,6,7. Is still having some problems but they blame everything on my cord damage at C6,7
    Just got back some major blood test and the numbers are all screwed up from six months ago so on the 11th I hope to find out some possibilities and reasons. Otherwise its going well here. LOL

    Are you better then from before surgery? I don't remember what month you went in but I found about every six months after surgery there was some improvement for about two years so you still have time to improve.
    I hope it works out for you.

  • jellyhalljjellyhall Posts: 4,373
    edited 03/07/2013 - 8:38 AM
    I had my surgery on 5th November, so 4 months ago. Still plenty of time for improvement. Before my neck fusion, I didn't have nearly so much pain as before my lumbar fusion. I would get lots of sharp, shocking, stabbing pains and occassional aching, mostly in my arms and hands, but also in my legs and feet. I was still getting them after the surgery, but the Gabapentin seemed to be controlling them. As I have lowered the Gabapentin, they seem to be returning, but I think less often that before. I reserve judgement but am trying to remain hopeful that I will get improvement. I was warned that I might not, but that the surgery was being done to get the compression off the cord.

    Did you find that your cord damage was helped by the surgery? Or are they permanent.
    I am having some problems lower down again, particularly in my right leg. It aches, has sciatica sometimes and gets cramp in the feet and toes. Last night it felt like restless legs and the muscle tightened and then it jerked about 10 times before stopping. Very weird! I also get a feeling like I have a mobile phone on vibrate deep inside my leg. I wish someone would answer it!

    Take care Rick :-)
  • Hi
    When I went in for surgery to remove the compression we did not know I had cord damage. The compression was so bad they said I had a 50% chance of what they called a catastrophic result. If surgery wasn't done it was 100%
    Surgery for me was a no brainer. After the ACDF was done for a few weeks everything was great. Then a few new issues started like electrical shocks, my feet felt like I was walking on broken glass and yes that damn cell phone in my leg keeps going off. That has to be the strangest issue I have. It feels like a phone in my pants pocket on vibrate.
    I don't feel so bad now as it seems like a regular problem for several people.

    Has these new issues increased the surgeon wanted another MRI. That is when they found I had cord damage where it had been compressed and also found my cord still did not have enough room so he did a lamimectomy(sp) of the same three areas of fusion. That helped alot. Like a fool I pleaded with my surgeon to do my lumbar fusion at the same time as the laminectomys. I would not suggest any one try that it was hard to recover from with both areas.

    Most of my neck issues that I know are caused by my neck are doing pretty well. I still have pain and burning. I drop anything in my hands if I don't pay attention to it. But now my left foot feels like its in a meat grinder and they can not find a reason for it so my cord gets the blame. The nerve meds like gabapentin helped me but all of them caused me double vision after a few months so I had to stop that class of drugs. I was using elavil which is a antidepresant but it works great for spine pain and developed major tremors and had to stop it. I was using 50mg a day. When I stopped it pain went way up and they said I could try 10mg as long as tremors don't start up again and its working.
    I did get a DX of onset of Parkinson's which does cause some trembling but not like the tremors the elavil did.

    I don't know if any of this helps you or not. What I have learned from all of this is that surgery will stop the progression of cord damage but NOTHING repairs cord damage. When somebody like a football player gets a cervical injury and is paralised on the field most of the time they recover because there is swelling pressing on the cord and if and when they get the swelling down quickly they don't get stuck with cord damage but just a hour or two can change that. With me and probally you too the compression was brought on real slow and we did not know it.
    I feel that because your surgery was in November you have more time for things to get better. Have they done any new MRIs after your surgery to see if your cord is clear and has fluid all the way around it? Plus remember those nerves do not like to be disturbed and take time to go back to normal.

    Talk with you later

  • You bet that it helps me to hear your story!
    Many of our issues sound very similar and it is so helpful to just know that there is someone else who has this mobile phone on vibrate thing going on and I am not crazy!

    I haven't had any MRIs done since my surgery.
    Before my surgery the surgeon said that there was no fluid on either side on my cord and that it was being pushed backwards and compressed. He told me that the whole of my neck is very degenerated but that he would only do the worst two levels where the cord was being compressed because if he did more than two levels, there would be a much higher chance of not fusing. He said that he may need to do another surgery from the back later. I assumed that this would be on the lower levels, below my fusion, but perhaps it would be the same levels. The two levels below where he has fused (C5/6/7) looked to my untrained eye about as bad as the levels he worked on (C3/4/5).

    I guess that when I see my neurosurgeon in April, I should tell him that I am still getting this unanswered mobile phone vibrating inside my right leg. I actually get it more than before my surgery. Something else that he felt could be from the cord compression is the feeling of being splashed with cold water and cramping in my feet and toes. I am still getting this too. I also still get the daily stiffening spasms in both legs and around my abdomen on getting up from lying or sitting.

    I am still hopeful that I will still improve and get relief from this surgery.

    How did you find the recovery from the laminectomy compared with the ACDF?
  • RickilalasRRickilalas Posts: 559
    edited 03/09/2013 - 7:05 PM
    Sorry but hands down the surgery from the front is less painfull and easier to get over then the laminectomys.
    I think its because of the muscle they have to go through. If you manage yourself and take it easy its not real bad so don't worry about it if it comes up. Maybe your doctor will order a MRI when you see him next time.
    It was about three months after the first surgery before I started having problems with my feet and the surgeon wanted to wait and see if it got better. It didn't so he ordered the next MRI which showed the cord still did not have room and we needed the laminectomys. I would need to go back and look at notes to see when my other issues started after the laminectomys for a sure time frame but i think it was just a few months later when the cell phone thing got worse. Then it started to feel like I was standing in buckets of ice water up to my knees. Next came a feeling of my shins being hit with a baseball bat and still do. And yes at times it feels like water drops are running down my leg. The oddest part of this is that half the time its dry with no water and sometimes when its cold there really are some drops of water like swet but its when its cold and i am not doing anything.
    Ahhhh yes the spine can play games with us. I also wonder how much of this could be Med related vs spine.

    My surgeon kept stressing to give it time as the spine doesn't want to be touched and takes a long time to recover.
    If you need more surgery it may help. I actually looked forward to my surgeries after the first and each one did seem to help . I have a SCS unit which helps but now I can't have MRIs of the spine so I have CT mylegrams that give a better picture then MRI but I am maxed out on radiation for awhile because of a TIA and all the CTs they did then plus my last spine CTs. There is a payoff and a cost of everything we do.

    Keep some notes for your surgeon on every issue you have even if you don't think it's related. Pay attention to bowel and bladder changes which can be cord related also. If you have a cord issue it can effect everything below the damaged area. I do feel they caught yours in time and you may just need a few more things cleaned up which will help in the long run. Do you have any pool therapy availible? I go to a warm pool twice a week in a program through
    The arthritis asc and it only cost $35 for six weeks which is really cheap. I have more range of motion now then I did before the first surgery and I have less neck pain.

    Last thought of the night
    Have you looked at a dermatone chart, there is one here on the site and it might help you
  • I just wanted to jump into this because, I just had a stellate Gaglion Nerve Block procedure on Friday March 8th 2013.
    The reason for the Procedure was that I had a RFA for a non-union of c6&c7 on 11/27/12 and after that proceedure I develpoed right hand Burning and Pins and needles, and It was Every Day. Pain Mgt Dr. called it Sympathic Pain from the RFA. I did have the Horners Syndrome after the SGB it lasted for 8 hours, my right eyelid drooped and I had blurred vision also. Upon my waking the next morning the Horners Syndrome was Gone. I am very thankful for that, it was scary as you have no control over the eyelid drooping. The Pain Mgt. Dr. was able to Inject a long lasting Medication into the Nerve and so far the Burning in my right hand is also Gone. Please if I have mis spelled anything I apologize.

    Having any procedure that involves the Neck is so scary. The surgery I had in 2010 a 3 level c4-7 acdf has been life changing. Now I have lipping at c4, and mild bulging at c3 and the same at c7 & t1. I have a Bone Spur at c7 also. Just had
    a New MRI on 2/13/13. I am going to see a orthopedic soon with my MRI results. It seems that I have pins and needles in both hands. I mainly get the pins and needles when I am Laying Down on my back, am I hitting something ie bone spur at c7 or what is going on??? I have been in Chronic Pain ever since September of 09, before my surgery I had no use of my left arm, and was dropping everything I had to lie down all the time. I had the surgery and I am still in Pain but a Different Pain. I like the idea of the Warm Pools for ROM!!! I get anxious Driving the car becuase of my limited ROM, I ask my Brother tho help with long car rides. I just lost my ex-husband on 2/13/13 who was a Great Advocate for Me, with Dr. Visits.
    He was a medic for years, and a RN with a BS. Life can be so Un-Fair sometimes, but I have found this site to be a Life Saver. I have met so many Understanding people that get this Pain really Hurts.

    Sorry if I got off track here, I just found it interesting as I read about the Horners Syndrome, as my Pain Dr. was right on with that side effect of the SGB.

    Thank you all.

    ACDF C4-C7 5/13/2010. Synthetic Bone Graft Failed Fusion.
    PCF C4-C7 8/13/13. Rods and Screws Fused in 3 Months with Autograft.
    C6-C7 Spineous process Surgically Shaved Off 3/11/14.

  • I was wondering what the problems with your feet were, and if you still have them? I get cramping in my feet and toes, which get pulled into some very strange positions.

    Sadly pool therapy is not available to me. I am in the UK. I think what I need is a holiday on a warm Caribbean Island with warm sea to paddle in and a warm jaccussi beside a heated pool. I wonder if the NHS would cover that!!

  • I hope that you will get some helpful answers from your orthopedic surgeon and that he will have a plan to help you.
    I also get pins and needles in my left hand when I lie on my back in bed, and also if I talk on the phone for long (I hold the phone in that hand.)

    Great to hear that your Horner's didn't last. That must be very encouraging for others reading this. :-)
  • RickilalasRRickilalas Posts: 559
    edited 03/12/2013 - 8:51 PM
    until after the first cervical surgery I had no issues with my feet at all.
    I went to the spine doctors because of lower back pain only. The first surgeon didn't ask me anything just looked at X-ray and said surgery as soon as possible on L4 andL5 fusion and then impressed that it could not wait and needed to be done within a few days. He went on to say if I waited for a second opinion I would be sorry.

    I called my insurance Co and got a nurse that was great and said I would be covered for a second opinion at a highly known hospital that was also the best trama rated hospital in my area. If you saw the news about the cop that went bad and shot several people mainly other cops in southern. California this was where they sent most of them.
    They were also the only hospital that would do my Dads melynoma surgery also. They replaced one third of his face. This was a Incredible surgery to see them go through. It gave us two extra years with my dad so I felt very high about them and the impressed me with how they treated people.

    I made my appoint ment to have my lumbar surgery checked out by the surgeon in charge of their adult spine surgeries. First he wanted to try PT and some drug treatments. He did X-ray of my full spine and asked me what problems I had with my neck. I told him I didn't have any problems at all with my neck. He stated I may have a cervical problem and showed me the X-ray of my neck. My neck had changed the curve to a backward curve that was not normal. He did some reflex testing in my knees and they were way over active which I learned can be a cervical problem. He ordered a full MRI of all three parts of my spine. While we were waiting on this he sent me to PT and said the insurance would require the PT before surgery. On the last day of PT he got the results of the MRI and said I needed to come right in and stop all PT.

    My profile pic was the compesion of my cord of which I had very few issues like a very small place on my arm that was numb, my right pinky was 1/2 numb and my arm pits felt like a match was being held under them burning me.
    The last problem was I was not using my neck to turn to look I used my shoulders. He changed his surgery schedule and got me in as soon as possible and to stay away from the soccer I was coaching because one ball to the head and I would be done.

    So in a few days he got me in for a three hour surgery ACDF on C5,6,7. It ended up taking six and a half hours because he said it was much worse then thought. I was so lucky and have been told if they did my lumbar surgery first it would have paralized me when they put me on the vent. First few days after surgery were really good.
    I even went home the day after surgery.

    Now about a week after surgery I started getting weird feelings in my lower leg and my feet. At my two week checkup he felt everything was going well. At the four week checkup the pain was increasing in both feet and both leggs. He felt it was moving the cord and removing the pressure that was on it and in time it would go away.
    About four to six weeks after surgery he ordered another MRI and while waiting for that my feet felt like I was walk in on broken glass when they hit the ground for the first time each day. As the days went on it got worse to a point that whenever me feet touched anything they felt like glass was cutting them. Many weeks later I got the new MRI and it showed the spinal cord was still sligjtlycompressed without spinal'fluid all the way around the cord..so in less then six months he did the second surgery which was removing the bone from the back of the same levels and placing a bar to cover the area for safety. It was in this second MRI that it showed a good sized part of my cord was damaged.
    So now my feet are better they get touchy sometimes and I have to be careful what shoes I wear both in weight and how hot they make my feet get. If my feet get hot in shoes it feels like I am walking on very hot sand, but its not always like that. They believe my new issues of my shins feeling like they are brusied an being hit with a baseball bat.
    Is from cord damage and there isn't much help for that. The scs does seem to help some and now my left foot has progressed to the feeling of it being a meat grinder. The scs is not helping that and may even be, making it worse.
    About 70 % of the time meds help with this. Plus the scs also helps with this but isn't a cure. I urge you to let your doctor know of any little changes that you Come across. I take it your feet are starting cause you some problems.
    I am also sending you a PM on one more long shot problem that may help.

    Wish you the best
  • RickilalasRRickilalas Posts: 559
    edited 03/12/2013 - 9:54 PM
    First off hello and we welcome you to the thread.
    Secondly you are a lucky girl if they did give horners syndrome and you recovered so quick. My dad got it after they hit the main artery in his neck changing a central feeding line. His vision was blured his pupil was left wide open and the eyelid drooped so much they did a surgery on it just to, make it look right. It also caused the eye to stay very dry and he had to use drops everyday for about 20 years. So believe it or not you are lucky!!!

    When you had your RF treatment dis they do it under floorescope. My PM doctor does and he injects a small amount of die that clears up the picture some and then he also has a setup with his RF unit that sounds out when he gets close to a nerve and it sends out a noise that the nerve is making so he knows he is there. I ask this just to see if yours is similar to mine. I had RF done to c2 and C3 for some headaches I had for the first time ever and it worked really good for me. It been a year now without those migrain headaches.
    I have also tried on six nerves in my lower back but it didn't last as long but did help.

    I have had to have some clean up surgery, the last one was for L4 and L5 nerve root compressiom from some kind of growth and it did help out so don't get stressed if they talk about removing some small stuff to keep it off of the cord or nerves. Do you have any cord damage? I hope not because it kind of throws the rules out on what can be the causes of new problems.

    The pool at first scared me but its been so much help the PT has us move just about every joint for 45 mims and then hang in a innertube to decompress the spine some and it does help.I stand in the water up to my chin to get as high on my neck as possible. I made sure it was OK with doctor to keep trying for more ROm he said OK with no pain and I have almost full range now. I know what your talking about in the driving deal I have a small car and a motor home. The motor home was easier for me ro drive because of the mirror system and not turning around. But today the car does pretty well for me to so don't give up yet. I did find not using anything makes it worse.

    Sorry you lost your EX. My EX has been helping me out and doing a lot for me. She lived next door to me and is moving out of state for a job with her dad so maybe as one door shuts another door opens. Who knows.
    Maybe I will make that house into a man cave. LOL
    Susabell let me know if I can answer anything else for you

    Take care
  • RickilalasRRickilalas Posts: 559
    edited 03/12/2013 - 10:08 PM
    What no pools anywhere
    Maybe a hot tub would work for you 93 degrees is a great temp most spas are set higher which can cause problems.in the U s if a doctor orders a spa for you it can be a tax deduction under some cercumstances but it still cost money. Maybe a hot bath would do the trick. Do Any spas or hotels have heated pools.
    I just wish you could try it a few times to see if it would help.
    Going to a island sounds great except for the dang long airplane ride.
    My first trip was to go to my step daughters graduatiom from'UCB and I was dropped of at the airport then had a six hour delay on the flight I didn't think I would ever get there but all in all it was worth it.

    Find a pool

  • So if I went to a pool, what should I do in it?

    My feet having been causing me problems since before my lumbar fusion 3 years ago and before my neck fusion I would get very strong and painful cramping in my feet and toes. It is generally the second and/or toes on my right foot. They are pulled into very strange positions, and can be in different positions. I have even had cramp in both feet at the same time. I also get burning and stabbing pains in my feet and toes. I have noticed that if I over do it, then I get far more and far worse cramping. My surgeon did say that he though this could be from the cord compression, but I thought he had dealt with that when he did the surgery. He also said that this phone on vibrate feeling inside my leg and a feeling of being splashed with cold water could be from cord compression.

    I did get very frequent and debilitating headaches before my neck surgery but this is the one symptom that seems to have improved. :-) I am really glad about that.

    Take care Rick,
  • susabellssusabell Posts: 238
    edited 03/13/2013 - 3:13 PM
    First of all I would like to say You have sure been thru a lot I mean Wow how Scary knowing that if they did the lumbar surgery first you would be paralyzed. Knowing this must of been quite a blow and thank god you did research and went to another facility!!! Regarding the Horners Syndrome, before the PM Dr. did the SGB procedure he came into the room and told me that there is a chance of tihs happening, I was like "You have got to be kidding Me, why did you not tell me this in the Office Visit prior to the Surgery day??? I was in a Panic....when he did the SGB i was on my back and he used Ultra Sound and X-ray and Fluroscopy, it took a long time for him to find the Nerve to put the medicine in, But when he found it He said it's right where it should be protected by these blood vessels. Then he injected a needle with a numbing Agent then I felt the BIG stick with The "Long Acting Medicine" I was then put on a table and wheedled into recovery where my eyelid was Drooping and I could NOT control the Muscle and my vission was Blurred. He came to me and I was Crying Not from thr procedure but because it was the first procedure without my Michael "My Advocate". He could see my eye and told me Not to worry it's temporary. I was like well, dear Lord Jesus please let him be right about this. I went home and just rested.
    The next morning it was Much Better, by the end of Saturday by early evening it was Fine back to Normal. The body just Amazes Me!!! I am LUCKY this was a temporary thing, also the Burning from the RFA is Gone, Pain Dr. called me Tuesday Evening, I live in Chicago North Suburb he said since the Burning was gone I would NOT need andymore SGB. I see him on Monday March 25th for a follow up and other issues.

    Regarding the RFA I am sure he used floorscopy, But I will ask Him as I am now curious I was laying on my stomach so it I could not see anything also I was under consious sedation I was woken Up and asked questions like does this feel better or this??? All I know Rick is that I was in so much Pain It was un-believable it was like a Hot Poker was being used twisting and turning in my Right Shoulder Blade and right Arm, and Right hand. It was a bi-lateral procedure and the left side was done also but I did not have the Issues I had with the Right Side. I will ask him questions about that die because I believe it is good to know these things!!! Ya know if you don't ask, sometimes they forget to give you all the information. You are very Kind to welcome Me to this thread. It was really something because the Night before my Procedure I read about your post and about your Dad having this Happen to him, I told the PM Dr. I was just reading about the Horner Syndrome last night.
    So he knows that I try and do my homework. I had a horrible first surgery outcome, I had these retention pins used and cement to fuse. I will post a picture of my Fusion. I have a fellow Spiney on the site who I am blessed to know very well and we live close to one another, and he has helped me a lot with Understanding all of this, I'd be lost without the Help!!! I will keep You updated and will check on that RFA Procedure as to exactly what was going on, all I know is that Wow it hurt very much and I will NOT do another one like that again!!!

    Thank you, Rick!!!
    I wish you well :)
    ACDF C4-C7 5/13/2010. Synthetic Bone Graft Failed Fusion.
    PCF C4-C7 8/13/13. Rods and Screws Fused in 3 Months with Autograft.
    C6-C7 Spineous process Surgically Shaved Off 3/11/14.
  • RickilalasRRickilalas Posts: 559
    edited 03/13/2013 - 8:12 PM
    Sorry I can't see well tonigjtmand I will show tomarrow'what we do
    Have a nice nite

  • I can't see tonihjt to type on my tablet so I will be in touch with you Thursday
    I am very sorry about your loss and the way it will effect you but we will try to fill the gap. It sucks because I am friends with my exs and they are still family. I will miss mine but she is just moving 1100 miles away to help her dad and I can't blame her for it and even said it may help her and him plus save me money but i will miss her

    See you later when I can read what I wrote
  • susabellssusabell Posts: 238
    edited 03/14/2013 - 1:06 PM
    Thank you for the Post "Yes" Ex's R Still Family and In my case, I was the one there for Him the Most, he had no Living Family Father, Mother, Brother had all passed away! So You r right. I Hope you Feel Better!!! Your poor eye's I feel for YOU!

    (((Gentle Hugs)))
    ACDF C4-C7 5/13/2010. Synthetic Bone Graft Failed Fusion.
    PCF C4-C7 8/13/13. Rods and Screws Fused in 3 Months with Autograft.
    C6-C7 Spineous process Surgically Shaved Off 3/11/14.
  • RickilalasRRickilalas Posts: 559
    edited 03/14/2013 - 7:49 PM
    That was strange last night kept getting blurred eyesite.. not normal for me at all.
    OK Jelly back to the pool treatment which I had again today and it feels so good. I was trying to figure out a way you could do it in another form like warm towels or a very warm shower maybe.
    The class is a hour long twice a week some people take it twice which is for times a week. I am 55 and the youngest plus the only male in my class of about ten people. It gets interesting sometimes LOl older women can be so perverted sometimes but in a fun way. Plus we share information that gets pretty deep sometimes when it helps
    somebody. But I draw the line when a few of them want to go to a Indian casino because the chipendale dancers are there. Sorry just not my thing.

    OK back to the pool again. The reasons for this is the hot water 97 degrees F I try to get there 10 mins early and just get in the water to relax before the class starts. Very slow movements just to loosen the muscle up. Then the PT imstructor starts they are trained for both PT and arthritis my PT really knows her stuff and keeps the set at a level that helps everyone. We start out with arm and shoulder movements then moves to feet and leggs. Then walking in place and doing all the gossup then we move onto some more harder leg work leaning left and right, rotate hips and ankles each way they can move. Then a few min its of walking sideways then hand and arm motion and shoulders then rist and finger motions. There is also head and neck twisting and bending sideways. When I started I could not turn my head or lay my head down sideways. It took time but I can lay my head over to both sides and turn my head both ways. Yes slower then the others but I can. The last fifteen mins you have a choice of hanging in a inertube
    Or going in the hottub 103"degrees which is to hot for, me. I ham in a tube for disc decompression and it really helps me. Everyone doing this gets some relief. You have to be careful when you start as it feels easy and even the second time feels easy but after the second time you will hurt like hell. This process decompresses the spine builds some core muscles and move every joint to help keep them'moving. If you do really well they can add weight to give you more strength. Without doing this my neck would not be as movable as it is. The water helps by reduceig your weight and stress on the joints plus the motion in the water adds resistence. I now have almost full ROM in my neck that they felt I would never have. Its not

    always easy or fun but I do not want to get I mobile..
    Jelly did you have any trouble with your feet or toes before the surgery?
    I notice the women with toes out of shape and on top of each other also have RA arthritis Maybe this is some thingelse to look into. I may be wrong but i think a simple,blood test will'amswer that.
    Also I have been told when something is happening to both feet or arms at the same,e time it can be cord damage.
    I hope you have no cord damage but your case is starting to sound so much like me.

    Hang in there you do still have many months to get better. Let your doctor know when anything new begins and what area it is messing with.

    Take care Jelly ( is that your Name or Nick name)?

  • RickilalasRRickilalas Posts: 559
    edited 03/14/2013 - 9:03 PM
    Hi thanks for the thoughts
    I would hope that everyone could get along with their exs. After all they were part of the family. I count all my past relationships as good friends except for the nut job that said she would burn any women's car that she saw me with. ha ha nice huh and then I found out she did d it to one. So i am glad that you guys got along and helped while you could.
    I need to find a lady that will help me LOL I always seem to be the helper but this one did very good for me.My life was like a nightmare movie split but still dated this ex, i was taking care of a older neighbor with no family left she had COPD real bad and ended up needing a lot of help then Dad got the DX for melanoma and his treatments were a all day ordeal but worth it. My dad had surgery, my neighbor died and I got the DX of the spinal cord compression and had a quick surgery. then Dad was set for another surgery and I was also set for a second spine surgery. Dad died just a week before my surgery I still feel he gave up so I would not miss my surgery so it was a very odd time. Its amazing what we can handle when we have too. I have no Idea how I did it. Ok enough of that.

    I am worried about your reaction of your injection. I have had cervical and lumbar injection possible. I know they say to keep the ESIs down but for two years I had two or three injections every other week. Not all had steroids but many did. I have a good relationship with my PM and surgeon and we all know it was getting to be two many injections but hey it was injections or life because I could not take it with out them. I have cut back now after my last surgery but they still help. Catch 22 pain now or later?

    My understanding with the dye and x-rays it should be safe as far as the injection part. When my Dad got the horners the nuro said the other doc that did the pic line screwed up hitting the nerve and he even tried to say Dad had a stroke to cover it up. We have to learn to stay on top of things and know what is going on all the time
    It sounds like maybe your feeling better now.

    When i get my injections all he does is a small local and then he gets in and out in like two mins. I love my PM
    at the hospital my last injection for a ct mylegram took the resident doctor 25 mins and he still didnt get it. I asked the attending to finish it because it was taking to long and the pain level was going up. My surgeon from this teaching hospital told me from now on always ask for the attending doctor to do it. My first epidural at the teaching hospital went too deep (called getting wet) and my legs went out for hours. I spent six hours in surgical recovery for a epidural they said was going to take 15 mins. When I hear horror stories on injections i wounder how much is inexperience by the doctor.
    I now they have to learn some where but not when we have so many problems

    Well again sorry about your Ex. The way I look at Life is when one door shuts another door opens and may just be better.
    If not choose another door.

    take care
  • jellyhalljjellyhall Posts: 4,373
    edited 03/15/2013 - 5:41 AM
    Jelly is a nick name. :-)
    I was getting the strange cramping and electric shocks and stabbing pains in my feet and toes before my ACDF and even before my lumbar fusion which was 3 years ago on 19th. (Happy Fusion Birthday to me!!) It did get worse though just before my ACDF. I notice now that it comes back with a vengance if I over do it. I mentioned it to my ACDF surgeon after the surgery, and he said he thought it might be due to cord compression. Once I got home, I thought about what he said and wished I'd asked about that because I thought he dealt with the cord compression.

    In fact there are a few things that he said could be from the cord compression that I still have!
    I will be seeing him in April so perhaps I will get some more answers from him then.
    As I am weaning off the Gabapentin/Neurontin, my nerve type pains are coming back, especially in my hands. I think the left hand is the worst.

    I feel like I am constantly whinging about all my pains and symptoms. I try to decide to stop mentioning it, but it is hard to just ignore it. You guys at Spine Health are a life saver for me. Thanks to you all :-)

  • RickilalasRRickilalas Posts: 559
    edited 03/15/2013 - 9:11 AM
    First off I have to say that I do feel very lucky even with all my problems. I have found that when we have a compressed cord they do not know if its damaged or not. My first surgery I was given a 50% chance of loosing the use of my arms or legs which scares the hell out of you when you walk in and hear that. I was also told if I waited on surgery it would probally be to late to get any help from it. That first surgery went very well and I walked out of the hospital the next day. In the next few months new issues started coming up I could tell the surgeon was concerned but he did not look worried. A few months later we did the second MrI and it showed the cord damage very clear.
    It also showed the cord still needed more room as there was not spinal fluid all the way around the cord.on your next MRI ask the doctor to show you how they see that. We did the second surgery, the lamenectomys of the same level with hope issues would stop. Well the damage was done. I started this in 2006 and in 2010 my surgeon finally said it would not improve anymore then it is. Now arthritis is flaring up and doing its thing which causes more issues to deal with. I have been trying to find out if spinal cord damage gets worse or stays the same and there is no hard answer.
    I have met and talked with a quad who has gotten better over the last 15 years so there is hope.
    I have learned to take it easy and not over do it. Keep on the meds to reduce the problems from getting worse while waiting for new technology to come up with a fix. Maybe stem cells will be a help for us.
    I am just starting to look at diets as some claim it helps with nerve pain but I am just starting this and we all know everybody has a diet for everything.

    I use to get jolts of shock through my body for no reason and they have slowed down and became more of a full body jerk just as I am relaxed and about to go to sleep. Why are you trying to reduce your nerve pain meds?
    Are they not helping or causing more issues? Have yo been checked for arthritis as this seems to be a regular progression. Your toes bug me because several women in pooomclass with RA arthritis have that problem.
    Do you take ay major at I inflamitory meds?

    I hope they find something to help you but I am afraid they just do not know what to do.
    Make sure they know your cord is clear now. You do not need any new damage.
    I have found doing things in moderation is the only way to go. If I do to much it gets worse if you don't do enough
    It gets worse. This just isn't fun.

  • jellyhalljjellyhall Posts: 4,373
    edited 03/15/2013 - 1:18 PM
    My surgeon said that he couldn't promise that my surgery would get rid of my symptoms but that he expects 70% of his patients to get some sort of relief but that he couldn't say how much or over what time. He said that if I didn't get relief, then things shouldn't get worse as decompressing the cord should stop any more damage. He did also say that he may need to do another surgery from the back afterwards. At the time I assumed that he meant to deal with the lower levels of my neck, which have bilateral nerve root compression, but now I wonder if he meant to get the compression off the cord. I must ask him in April.

    I had seen another neurosurgeon's registrars over the two years before my surgery while they were 'watching and waiting'. On one of my appointments the registrar examined me and said it was time to do surgery because I had signs of myelopathy. He explained what the surgery would entail, the risks but also the risks of not having it. He went to talk to the consultant neurosurgeon, and came back 15 minutes later and said that the consultant had said we should wait and they would see me again in 6 months. He said that the consultant had much more experience and so we would follow his advice. He also said something about the consultant had a patient 'like me' who could walk fine before surgery, but afterwards couldn't walk. After that the appointment ended as he had overrun by quite a lot. What a roller coaster of an appointment! I went from thinking I was going to have surgery soon, to being told that we would wait, but not really told why or what they were waiting for. I felt quite cross that this had been decided from another room without even examining me himself. After that I asked for another opinion. That new surgeon said we should get on and do the surgery.

    Before this surgery, the surgeon showed me that there was no spinal fluid around the cord and where it was being pushed back and compressed. There was no obvious sign of cord damage but some of my symptoms, he felt, were coming from the cord compression. I get stiffening spasms every day and have researched to try to find out what is causing them. The doctors seem very vague about it's cause and if it will even ever go. Everthing I read about it points to it being caused by damage to the cord. The same symptoms are seen in people with MS (I was tested for that) and with spinal injury patients and people with cerebral palsy. I still have it!

    I am weaning off the Gabapentin because I want to know how I really am, without masking any symptoms, before I next see my surgeon. As I am lowering the dose, I am aware that the pains and symptoms are returning. They are not there all the time, but come and 'jab' me or burn for an hour or two, just to remind me that they are still there. I would say though that my headaches do seem to be much improved. Having said that, I woke with one this morning!

    I have been told that I have spondylosis which is arthritis of the spine. I have bony spurs in my neck, thoracic and lumbar spine. I also have a small spinal canal so these osteophytes cause problems quite quickly. I do have mild compression of my cord in my thoracic spine, which my surgeon attributes to the pain and tightening I get around my abdomen. He has offered me spinal injections to try to help this, but at the moment at least, I am coping with it.

    How are you feeling now Rick? What is the future plan for your treatment/management of your pain?
    Take care and have a good weekend. :-)

  • i have been here a while trying to post a picture of my MRI done before my surgery, but it seems that the file is too big. ??
    I will try again some time and will ask my hubby to help me. He is busy doing his own stuff right now.

    I think, should I ever manage to post this, that you will see that I have degeneration in my neck.
  • RickilalasRRickilalas Posts: 559
    edited 03/16/2013 - 8:53 PM
    Sorry I didn't get back to you. The pain thing is making it tough the last few days. I didn't do anything physical so i wonder what it is this time. I changed one combo Med to two seperate meds but that should not change anything..
    They gave me a months worth of samples of vimovo which is naparsen and omeprosole. Insurance would not cover them in one pill but do cover them seperate. In the Us the insurance company's run our medical.

    I hope you get some answers next month because you are getting way out from surgery where my second surgery was to give the cord more room at the same level was like six months out from the first.
    Anytime there is any pressure on the cord or no fluid all the way around its time to do something..If you compare your issues from before surgery and now how much difference is there. What was helped and what pain is new.

    How are your days going are you OK if you don't do much what limits do you have now. Can you take it easy all day and then go out for dinner without any problems? I went to my first movie in years it was the one about the circus Solay (sp) I did see the main show in Vegas last July and it was fantastic. The movie shows a small part of several shows.
    Do you live near any of the canals with the long boats. I caught the end of a travel'show
    And think ot would be a great trip to take.

    You should have some photo editor on you computormake your pic 85 x85 pxels and the resolution needs to drop to about 72. I wish we could comparepictures and see if mild moderate and sevear are the same used everywhere.
    Well I hope you are having a good weekend and can get out and do something.
    My ex had a yard sale today and I didn't even get out there until11;30 and around here yard sales
    End at about noon. I couldn't help much more then giving orders any way LoL:-)
    Your next doctor visit make sure you have a list of everything and show which are getting worse and do any thing you have to to see the surgeon,
    This is short but i will hit you again tomowro

    Be good
  • jellyhalljjellyhall Posts: 4,373
    edited 03/17/2013 - 5:40 AM
    When they decided to do another surgery on your neck to get the pressure off your cord, what symptoms were you having? Did you have all the signs of myelopathy? Thinking and comparing how I was before surgery and how I am now is interesting. I would say that I am having worse pain and symptoms now, but this is since weaning right down on the Gabapentin. Before my surgery I was taking Nortriptyline. This makes is impossible to really make a comparison. It does tell me though, that I definately still have problems going on, unless this is the result of permanent cord damage. Following a dermatome chart, the pains in my hands and arms would be from C5,6,7 and 8. How can you tell if it is from these nerve roots or the cord. I do have symptoms in both arms, but my EMG tests showed that I have bilateral neurogenic changes in the muscles fed by these nerves.

    A benefit that I do seem to have from the surgery is much reduction in the headaches that I was getting.

    As far as how I am now, I have good days and bad days. I am definately worse since returning to work. There is a lot of stress involved with this as they are not being very supportive, and that makes things worse. My physiotherapist, who I see each week, says that all my muscles have gone into guard mode and I have lots of trigger points that he works on. Ouch! I seem to be getting quite a bit more pain in my neck, and even very small movements and even moving my arm (especially left arm) will cause me pain. I do know that there are many people who have far worse problems than me and that makes me decide to make the best of how I am. We do go out for meals and to the cinema most Fridays. I take a cushion with me which helps and I can fidget in the chair!

    I think from my scans, I don't have such severe compression as you had, but I have it at more levels. To my untrained eyes, it looks like I have it at 4 levels, but obviously it can't be that bad as I only had two levels fused. My surgeon did say that he would only do two levels because there was a much higher chance of not fusing and having more problems if he did more than two levels. Some of the pictures of my neck look worse than others. In some you can see that there is pinching from the back of my spine too. In other pictures that isn't evident. After my ACDF he did say that things were very tight in there.

    We have had a busy weekend and went to watch our granddaughter dance yesterday. Today we are taking it easy and hubby is watching the car racing from Melbourne on tv this afternoon. I hope that you have enjoyed your weekend. :-)
  • Jelly
    Your last post made me go get what records I have to get the time frame and issues. I did have a twitch in my right eye but it was after the second surgery not the ACDF that was my first. I wounder now if your other cervical issues is causing this.
    Mine went away and because of everything else I did not really know when or why.
    I sent a PM with some more info

    Take care
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