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doctors are bad-NOT

terror8396tterror8396 Posts: 1,832
edited 05/13/2013 - 12:30 PM in Chronic Pain
another red buttom item that i have with some of these posts are posts that say doctors are bad, incompetent, uncaring, etc. i find these statements disingenuous at best. these blanket statements are in my opinion wrong. i have no idea why there is a preponderance of people who state this as a fact. i don't know why some have such negative experiences with doctors. being a high school teacher, i hear from a lot of parents that blame the teachers when their kids fail or get in trouble. as an old saying goes, the apple don't fall far from the tree. teachers like doctors are in the profession because they want to help people. certainly i am not in it for the money. at my level, i do make a comfortable living but for the amount of education i have, i think i should get paid a lot more. but i am not going to get into why teachers should get more money. yes doctors make a lot of money but with the overhead their money goes down very quick. yes there are doctors who make mistakes or who do not have the best bed side manner but in my opinion, i think at least 95% are caring people. this goes especially for pain doctors. they see people everyday who are in pain. what is a problem is patients going in and demanding certain meds. telling a doctor the pain is so intense, i can't get out of bed raises a flag also. then they order mri's and tell the patient there is nothing visible on the mir that would explain the pain. mris show systematic pain, broken bones, herniated discs, what do you do if you feel your doctor is not on the right track? get a second opinion. but the problem i have here is people who go from doctor to doctor and they tell them they see nothing systematically wrong. so it is the doctor's fault correct? he is uncaring, and unfeeling, correct? NOT!. like ron said in another post , one must look in the mirror. i find it insulting to say doctors don't care about me. doctors are human and when they see the same patient over and over and over who still won't accept the fact that they cannot see anything structural wrong with them, they blame the doctor. this site is full of post of what to and not to do when you visit a pain doctor. there are certain protocols that a patient must do to be taken seriously. my pain doctor has to deal with people wanting this and that all of the time when he feels that the patient does not need this or that. he needs x, y, and z. so if one is unhappy with your doctor, go see another one. it is a free country. but if one gets the same message over and over then one must look in the mirror.
I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.


  • sandisandi Posts: 6,343
    edited 05/10/2013 - 10:04 AM
    I am in total agreement. I have had negative experiences with doctors too , at different times in my life, but, by and large, I have found most doctors to be compassionate, dedicated, hard working, and determined to help their patients.
    When there is documented medical issues in test results or scans, xrays etc, most doctors want to work toward getting the patient back to functioning at their best levels, but when there is nothing abnormal on the tests, reports, consults, etc, the doctors hands are tied, and a part of the hippocratic oath states do no harm- it would be harmful and irresponsible on their part to provide medications not deemed medically necessary.
    If a patient is convinced that there is something wrong, then a consult with another doctor, of the right type for the suspected condition is the right path for that patient. It is why I said in the other thread to see the right doctor for the right condition. It is why there are so many specialities in medicine- endocrinologists handle glands, and the endocrine system problems, diabetes doctors handle diabetes and it's complications, cardiologists handle heart problems.
    A general practioner is just that, he handles the general overall health of their patient but lack the intense study of a specific system in the body, and that's why they should either be making referrals to patients about the next step in their healthcare concerns .
  • Thanks sandi
    it seems to be a not too common thread lately. in fact it seems to appear a lot and it is a raw deal to label doctors as unfeeling and not compassionate. it is really a hot button topic for me
    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • There is a difference between, lableing, venting, judgement, oppinions, and etc. If you want to get technical that is...... just sayin'........Freedom of speech...ya gotta love it!

  • sandisandi Posts: 6,343
    edited 05/10/2013 - 11:09 AM
    I did have both of my surgeons that had their own issues, I'm pretty sure that we have all come across doctors who either are too busy to really listen or don't seem to care but my own experiences have shown me that far more doctors do care, are compassionate and want to do their best for their patients.
    And age has nothing to do with the doctors caring. It does have everything to do with seeing the right doctors for the right conditions though.
    I also think that some doctors just don't know what to do when a patient presents with a problem that is out of their scope of practice or no real findings on their tests to guide them in how to treat them.
  • dilaurodilauro ConnecticutPosts: 9,863
    edited 05/10/2013 - 6:05 PM
    To me, success with your doctor is very much like success with your married or significant other relationship

    Trust and Confidence
    There needs to be a two trust relationship with your doctor(s) By that I mean when your doctor suggests that you try A or B, you accept that and give it a try. Then you come back and tell them how A or B did for you, good or bad. When this happens over a period of time, there is a level of trust that the doctor has in you and you with the doctor.

    When your doctor tells you that surgery is not needed, but instead some physical therapy, spinal injections, etc would be the best action plan, you give it a try. When your doctor changes some of your medications, you accept that, give it a try and then give them feedback.
    When your doctor tells you that increasing your pain medication is not warranted, you believe that!

    This is so very important. During a clinical examination, your doctor asks you how has your pain been. You answer its 10 or higher every day. Red flag... Any pain level 8 or higher, you should be going to the ER, because at those levels, you really can not take care of yourself. The doctor asks you how many ABC pills are you taking daily. You answer 4, but your prescription indicates you should have at least 2 more weeks before a refill, but you are asking for a refill now.
    These are pretty gross and exaggerated , but I hope you get the point.

    Any two people can say a bunch of words that make sense. Thats easy. But communication, effective two-way communications is what you are really looking for. For example, when you are new to a doctor. and you come in saying that you need a MRI, want this and that type of medication, you probably just lost in any effective communication.
    But after establishing trust and confidence, its much easier to say the same things to your doctor and they will listen.

    In for the long haul
    I said this in another post I made, but I will repeat it here. The relationship you should and need to have with your doctor is no different then you want for your partner.
    - For Better or Worse
    - In good times and in bad times
    - To be there to support you when needed
    - To tell you when you are wrong
    - To tell you when you are right

    Doctors and the medical field are there to help you. There is no reason that IF you do the above that you would have any problem with your doctor.

    But just like in life, there is the GOOD, BAD and UGLY . After you do your part and the doctor treats you as UGLY, then it would be time to look for another doctor. If after doing your part, the doctor treads you BAD, you need to ask them WHY

    Now, when everything I mentioned above is done effectively with the doctor and the patient, you are now in GOOD hands.

    Ron DiLauro Spine-Health System Administrator
    I am not a medical professional. I comment on personal experiences
    You can email me at: rdilauro@veritashealth.com
  • I must be missing something here because I have not read a post that says doctors are "bad". Not even from me. I've read experiences, venting and oppinions including mine. Sorry, I don't get your discomfort with other people experiences. Hey I don't understand your experiences...what great doctors you have had and have. They totally get you. You do realize you like all of us are a small little drop in humanity. You're a teacher right.. than you know how hard it can be. You and I are a small drop in this ocean. Billions of people, billions of different experiences. Your experience isn't like any one elses. In the same token don't think everyone is like you. You are one lucky Dude as far as I'm concerned. You can work, you have a wife. You have a life....count your blessing's everyday because not all of us are that lucky.
  • dilaurodilauro ConnecticutPosts: 9,863
    Jon's thread comes from a long time of posts we have seen at Spine-Health. I do not believe he is targeting anyone, just that there have been so many threads/posts that people are putting their doctors at fault for whatever. You are still fairly new at Spine-Health , so you would not have seen the things that Jon is talking about. Though, they still exist today, I see them very often.

    But put that aside.

    Jon lucky? No, I thing it has nothing to do with luck. He has worked hard to be where he is today. He has had multiple spinal problems and setbacks, but he has bounced back from all of them. Its his attitude and never give in approach that has gotten him where he is today... So its not luck.

    But I do sense that you are a bit down, both physically and emotionally. I dont know enough about your medical situation, so I can only speak from what I know.

    I have had to deal with multiple series of spinal problems, joint problems and more. Too many past surgeries and only knowing that there is more of that ahead. I realize that by the time I reach 70, I probably will not be able to walk by myself,will need help doing just about everything. But until that day happens, I am going to enjoy every morning and every night as much as I can. Its nothing to do with luck for me... If I was lucky, I wouldn't be in the medical condition I am in.
    I just refuse to give up. I maintain a positive attitude everyday. Sure some days are worse than others. Today, I got bad news from the result of a MRI I had done yesterday. But like so much else, I am going to take it stride and beat it.

    Kiki, I think for me, its because of all those years in dealing with chronic pain. As with anything, the more experience you have , the better you can work with it. I do not wish more pain or discomfort for you, but only for you to look at the brighter side. Its there.
    Ron DiLauro Spine-Health System Administrator
    I am not a medical professional. I comment on personal experiences
    You can email me at: rdilauro@veritashealth.com
  • Kiki48KKiki48 Posts: 196
    edited 05/10/2013 - 8:31 PM
    Ron, I disagree with you. I do agree I am new to spine health However.. I'm not new to doctors and misdiagonis. Don't mistake my in experience on spine health for in experience. You have no idea where I have been what I have done and how I do it. So, Jon talks about how he can do all his life. Oh Yeah darn right I think he's lucky. Especially the way he talks. Okay fine He's not so lucky....He is better off than people on here and HE really likes to stress that..... I can do this so every one else should be able too... Yeah that's a problem with me. He is clueless as far as I'm conerned.
  • jlrfryejjlrfrye ohioPosts: 1,110
    I have had both bad and good Drs. I have been very upset with a few and am very pleased by many . When a patient such as I have a spine infection and knows somthing is wrong and no one would listen to me, I now have a trust issue with Drs. yes I have vented on SH.about my care by Drs but my venting was more out of fear then trying to Dr bash. Face it Drs are human and do make errors not to mention that Drs rely heavily on their staff to receive patient information, if the staff is incompetent then this falls back on the Dr, Or their hands are tied with the insurance companies. Insurance companies denials in test that the Dr wants done because he also feels something is wrong but according to insurance the criteria for that test is not met by the patient. The Dr deals with all kinds of road blocks that most patients are not aware of. Most Drs are now overloaded with patients due to having to see more patients per day just to make ends meet due to all the insurance cuts and such. Most people would be surprised how much Drs make, it is not as much as you thinjk. Trust me I know, I am a accountant for a large practice. All this being said there are bad Drs out there that should not be practicing. Unfortunatley once a person has been a patient of said Dr they have become jaded to all Drs.and have to learn to trust again. TRUST being the key word as Ron would say. Patient and Dr trust is something that does not happen over night. Most patients must become their own advocate and do their research. Learn their disease and do their research on their Drs. Go to the medical board website and pull your Drs name up. You will be surprised what you can learn. All suspensions and why, all pending law suits for malpractice,.ect,ect.. You are correct in saying that if you dont like your Dr go to another one but you are incorrect in saying that one must look in the mirror after several visits to different Drs all with the same answers. It took 4 different Drs before my infection was discovered. I truly belive that if a patient feels something is really wrong then dont stop searching for the right Dr until you get a answer. I have been on both sides of this conversation and uderstand the feelings that come with it, so if you are lucky enough to have experienced only great health care I am happy for you but since you have not been on the " other side" do not be so quick to judge.
  • I can only comment on my own past history, and I, like many of you, have had numerous surgeries to reach our so-called "Holy Grail" of feeling better and being pain-free.

    When I initially began trying to find the roots of what was then "only" lower-back pain, I had this doctor at a very prominent medical center near my home that didn't seem to think my problems were serious. I was in a whole lot of discomfort and the way I perceived him was very "flippant". That is what upset me more than anything. To make a long story short, I saw a different doctor within the same medical center, and he ordered a discogram which identified the offending disc.

    The point I am trying to convey is, each of us have our own sensitivity levels, which are most definitely magnified by our pain levels and tolerance of this pain. The doctor that I described as "flippant", is likely a good doctor and obviously knowledgeable in his field of study. Many doctors are empathetic and others could use some empathy, I think the doctors that could use more are ones that we frown upon sometimes. Of course there is more to this topic than the part I just touched upon.

  • RangerRRanger on da rangePosts: 805
    edited 05/11/2013 - 5:34 AM
    I would not want to be a doctor.
  • just a point, it just seems to be pain doctors that are getting the hostility on this site. i know others like ortho or gp are targeted but for the most part it is the pain doctor that gets the hostility. from this point, i don't hear my gynocologist or my audilogist or my proctologist are bad. it always seems to be the pain doctor for the most part. could it be that people are upset because they do not get the meds that they want? i don't know but the main point is that i am in pain, and my pain doctor does not believe me or he refuses to give me narcotics or the narcotic i ask for. i know i am generalizing but from my point from reading over the years this is the main item i have read. i don't hear that my urologist is bad because i have stones and he does not believe me.
    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • yes but other doctors deal with chronic pain issues not just orhtos like onocologist ones that deal with arthritis, ones that deal with urological issues, also there are dentists that deal with chronic pain, PMJ disease. so it is a chronic pain site
    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • wrong
    if you read, there are people with all sorts of different chronic pain issues just not backs. people who have pain in their fingers and toes, women with gynocological issues. it doesn't have to be chronic pain with back issues. people go to chronic pain doctors not just for backs, my wife has chrones disease and she sees one.
    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • RangerRRanger on da rangePosts: 805
    I don't think we can say "everybody here is after the pain dr's" or that "it is only the pain dr's that are taking the heat."
    I think that all personalities don't work out between patient and doctor. We can go on and on just on that subject alone but I
    don't think that it is worth creating a rift between members here. I have a lot of respect for most everyone's opinion here, I don't have to agree, but I still must respect them.
    If someone wants to bring up a subject here not related to the spine, that's okay with me, I have the choice not to add my two cents to that post. There is plenty of other subjects here to offer people support, you don't have too many clicks to find one.
    hope you all have a nice day,
  • This horse meat has to almost be tender by now...........


  • Charlie LOL. Thanks for the laugh :)
  • terror8396tterror8396 Posts: 1,832
    edited 05/11/2013 - 8:15 PM
    it seems that the majority of posters are on disability, just my opinion. hence maybe this is a reason why a lot of posters are not satisfied with the doctors. i for one am not on disability and have a ppo insurance. i have never been on it or would i want to. a lot of people doctors and patients scamming the system. it would be interesting to see how many out there are disability patients. when i went to my old pain doctor, he retired, it seemed that the majority of patients sitting in the waiting room were on disability. the conversation always went to what are you here for and what meds are you taking. one woman told me she came to get a refill of meds and her case manager came and took her off to a rehab clinic. too many horror stories about disability and all involved for my taste.
    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • Jon, I dont know why the argumentative, hostile attitude lately. I posted why I was not able to work at this time due to so many surgeries and complications lately and all you can talk about is what you can do even though you are in so much pain, that you get up and go to work every day even though you are in pain. How the children get up and go to school daily even though they are in pain. How you are insulted because someone else complains about the care they receive from a doctor???? I dont expect anyone on here to say "oh poor pitiful you because you cant work due to pain" but this is a forum where people come to vent, complain and sometimes even give praise but seems lately that Ron has to involve himself because it becomes an argument and usually involves you. I have been a member for a yr. and I dont agree with everyone but I have seen the love and encouragement that I as well as others have received from many on here. I have noticed lately that there have been some posts especially about pain meds and docs that bring out the worst in some. I worked for a GP and even though they are not trained in any one speciality exclusively they have a great knowledge of many specialtys and I trust mine more than any specialist because she knows me so well. I stated that I got my pain meds from her in another post and did not have to sign contract and you posted that IF I went to PM I would have to sign. I am aware of that and my GP has patients who she has sign contracts. I hope when I do post something that it helps someone either with knowledge of what I have gone through or with an encouraging word not an argument or to make someone feel bad. Yes, you may be truthful in what you say and state that "people just dont want to hear the truth" but being harsh in the way you talk to people does not help. My mama always said you draw more flies with honey than vinegar. With all the recent posts about your comments perhaps it is time for you to have a look in the mirror.

  • Jon, yet again another post generalizing people who are on disability. No, I am not on disability nor have I ever been but am in process of applying. It has always been my opinion not to say I will never do anything because many times I have had to eat my words. Now its not just people complaining about their doctors but those people must be on disability. I have a 61 yr. old brother on disability and is wheelchair bound and must use O2 24/7. I guess he could pull his O2 around with him and work instead of drawing money from the govenment. This is another example of the hurtful things you say and almost seem to enjoy :(

  • Yep, I share your feelings on this Shandra and Kelli. Shandra, great statement from WD!
  • Well Jon.........good for you that you're not on disability. Congratulations!

    Ever stop to think maybe some of us unable to work wished we were still able? Maybe you could live with yourself if you smashed up a school bus full of children, but I COULD NOT. I was damned proud of my job and took great pride in it. I enjoyed an excellent rapport with both the children AND their parents. For all eleven school years that I drove, I never had an accident and kept each student safe. I ENJOYED my job and took great pride in it!

    My mind obviously doesn't work the way yours does, and to be honest, I am grateful. I'm not sure why you seem to revel in adding digs against other members here. Perhaps you wish to drive others out in order to keep the forums confined just to the people that you prefer, I don't know. We're not going away, though. We're just not.

  • RangerRRanger on da rangePosts: 805
    edited 05/12/2013 - 4:24 AM
    We sort of got off topic again, talking about "most posters here are on disability". That could be a whole new thread as seeing the response here. I have been asked many times, why am I not on disability as arthritis has wracked my body from my neck to my toes and making my career hard to tolerate every single day. I am a very stubborn person, I always think I can do anything even though I get frustrated with myself at times. My day is coming when I will have to give up this talent I have had for more than 40 plus years. But for now if I can work, I will, and people that really need disability such as my learning disabled son or the many others here on this site, I'm so glad they have that. Not everyone is as fortunate as I am.
    As for bad doctors? Oh yeah, I forgot I already posted that above, forgive me as my memory isn't great either. LOL
  • terror8396tterror8396 Posts: 1,832
    edited 05/12/2013 - 6:05 AM
    boy you guys need to learn to read. apparently your schooling was substandard. i made no judgements at all. i just asked a question about how many here are on disability. talk about judgemental. i am just asking questions and being the devil's advocate. some of you need to have a big glass of prune juice in the morning. it is this defensiveness that makes me wonder about some of you. apparently i hit a nerve with some of you. also you who can't read did not read my qualifer at the end of my post about making irrational statements that are judemental. you need to read that sentence at the end.
    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • charlie6017charlie6017 Posts: 412
    edited 05/12/2013 - 6:20 AM
    Real tough guy behind a computer screen..........real men don't need to be the way you are.

    Feel better, tough guy? I hope Ron or maybe one of the other moderators will put this thread out of it's misery.

  • MetalneckMetalneck Island of Misfit toysPosts: 1,364
    From your mouth - to "Mods" ears Charlie!

    Shandra - Welcome to the forums! Glad your here!

    Spine-health Moderator
    Welcome to Spine-Health  Please read the linked guidelines!!

  • once again for the challenged, i stated that it seems to me that the majority of people on this site are on disability, just my opinion, maybe that is why there is hostility towards doctors. now explain to me how that stated that i was against people on disability. i said that may be the issue with doctor dislike. i also said i have not or will not go on disability. once again, no judgement about people on disability. i said that there seems to be too much hassle and some people, not all, some people, not all screw the system. these were all opinions to explain why there might be hostility towards doctors. like i said, if some of you are defensive about this, then there might be a grain of truth. also, re read my disclaimer again which obvioiusly some of you did not do. people who get defensive about something can mean that it could be true. once again is said some, repeat, some not all. this topic is finished as far as i am concerned.
    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • I post once in a while, but perhaps it would benefit all of us to try not to have negative thoughts or discussions. This just perpetuates chronic pain! We can all just agree to disagree. Just a thought...
    2011 ACDF C5-6 for Spondylosis with Myleopathy
    2012 L4-5 herniated disc and hernated disc at C4/5 2013 Taking Amitriptyline for headaches
  • those excerpts that anelson listed doesn't sound like the same man posting today. Thanks for posting them.
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