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Doctor rude

AlsmomAAlsmom Posts: 32
edited 10/15/2013 - 6:00 AM in Chronic Pain
Today was my third vist to a new PM clinic. First time doc said my history was too complicated and I should seek help in the big city near my home! I was surprised and dissappointed and said.." Really ?". Then he said I cold see the staff psychiatrist which I did. He was thoughtful and suggested anti-depressant and said I needed more pain meds and sent me back to the first doc.
Just got home from that appt where this doc was rude and told me I have a pill problem did I know I have a pill problem and that the shrink wasn't going to tell him what to do.
I spat out a few defensive comments like I don't doctor shop or take meds when I don't have pain and that I would not have come back except for the shrink telling me to...
Guess back to primary care for meds. Defeated upset big time.


  • once again, it is hard to be supportive when there is only one side to the story. most doctors are not rude and are very helpful especially pain doctors. they don't make comments like this unless there is something else going on. this is a big problem with this site, patients posting about rude or bad doctors or workman comp issues. with only one side to the problem, we cannot make a valid or supportive statement. when i see a blanket statement that i see all of the time here such as pain dr is rude or thinks i am a pill pusher, i wonder to myself. just a point that i feel strongly about. i'm sure if someone went around your work or what ever and said you were a jerk, you would feel bad and say wait a minute you haven't heard my side.
    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • If u want to read my history I think u may see I am a reasonable person with years of dealing with doctors. Perhaps I should have phrased my comment as " first rude doctor in my 45 years of dealing with chronic pain". My comment is about one particular person with a narrow view..

    I didn't say or think he thought I was a pill pusher ...if that means a salesperson.
  • I am not sure what conditions you were seeing the PM doctor for, or how many for that matter, but they can not take a new patient into their practice, with multiple diagnosis and just start to treat them. Do you have studies and reports to back up whatever your conditions are? Have you had records sent to him from all of your providers?
    Too often, they get patients who either are not appropriate for long term pain management programs, or patients who come in with multiple diagnosis' and they must find a starting point, and have the documentation to back up those diagnosis'.
    Why did he feel that you are a drug seeker? There must've been some reason that he has concerns, so the question would be what were they and what can you do to alleviate his concerns?
  • sandisandi Posts: 6,343
    edited 09/19/2013 - 1:51 PM
    I just read your history- and I believe that part of your problem is that most of the 'diagnosis' you have are ones of exclusion. What i mean by that is , there are not medical tests to confirm tmj, or chronic daily headaches, other than self report.......do you have MRI to back up the MS diagnosis? What about the aneyurisms? I assume you have medical reports confirming those as well?
    Have you had an emg done to confirm the tmj nerve damage? What other treatments are you using to help with the pain?
    What about headache abortives? These days, those work far better to prevent migraine than opiates do in treating them.
  • dilaurodilauro ConnecticutPosts: 9,845
    is that you have some diagnostic tests done, but what are their outcomes?
    What have your doctors recommend in terms of action plans?
    Is surgery recommended?

    Its hard for us to help out when we dont have enough information. Your medical information provides us with a piece, but there could be more.
    Ron DiLauro Spine-Health System Administrator
    I am not a medical professional. I comment on personal experiences
    You can email me at: rdilauro@veritashealth.com
  • When I was forced into changing my primary physician to my current one (my original doctor moved out of state), I walked into his office and the first thing I did was handed them a stack of MRI reports and told them where they could get any other information they needed (after all the introductions and normal new patient stuff). I haven't had a problem with them at all. They have been very supportive.

    I think that doctors see so many people complaining about being in pain and wanting pain medicine that they almost get gun shy.

    I say be honest and upfront with the doctors and if they can help - they will. They didn't get into medicine to watch people suffer and if they did...... WOW!
    5 MRIs since 2010 | Severe DDD throughout entire Lumbar Region | Facet Arthrosis throughout | Spinal Canal Stenosis | Herniation L4/L5 | Broad - Based Bulging L1/L2, L2/3, L3/L4 - but still kicking - just not very high. :)
  • even though they are here to help, i think the set up of pain doctors over the years has invited people who either say they have pain and don't or they go to pain drs for narcotics. years ago, there were no pain doctors per se and when people in chronic pain complained of being under treated, the gov't stepped in and pain management drs started their practices. these were usually anethesiologists and then the field opened up. recently with the bad publicity of pill clinics or people over dosing, it has begun to become tougher to get pain meds. so instead of helping people, the prevalence of pain drs has now made it harder to get treatment due to people scamming the system. so now we see posts such as the above where a person accused a pain dr of being a jerk. i believe we are now seeing the end of pain management as we once knew it. blame the pain scammers on this one plus other factors such as the media going hyper about pain meds. my pain dr stated that pain meds will end in the near future due to these factors.
    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • Thanks for the private message, and I think that I understand a bit more now. Unfortunately, the pain management doctor is the only person to make the determination about when to provide medications and what dosage so he may very well resent the recommendations made by the psychiatrist and is only going to do what he feels is medically necessary.
    He ultimately bases his opinions on what medical tests he has in front of him, how current those records are, any recent imaging studies or other testing done and his exam of you. It may be because you have so many conditions that he is not comfortable with either the amount of medications you were on or the type and that's why he said what he did...not that that excuses the treatment of a new patient but many times when patients come to a new doctor, with multiple complaints, it is difficult to decide which one needs treatment first, and where to start...the best recommendation that I can suggest is that if you aren't willing to give him and his office another try , is to talk to your GP about another recommendation or call around and see if there is another group in your area that might be a better fit.
    It also might help to determine which condition is giving you the most problems right now and start there.......of course, you still need to give your entire history, but at least it gives you and another doctor a starting point. However, I do want to caution you not to expect that any new doctor is going to continue treatment as you had it previously. Most doctors will want to start over, and it may very well include going right back to the beginning- anti inflammatories, physical therapy, water therapy, etc.....and injections before he is willing to go to the medications areas.
  • Sandy and Ron, thank u for your input. I take it to heart. I have done what u each suggest...I think the new doc was put off by my recent burst of searching for dx and being sent by one md to another. He assumed I was just lucking for drugs I guess. I do think the shrink at this place will work with my GP and maybe I can get some help. Thank u both so much. If I new how to send my private message to Sandy to Ron, I would. Too high tech for me.
  • To use the private message feature, just click on the little bar underneath each of our names......it's not as hard as it looks. I know it took me a bit to figure out the forums too when I first joined........
  • AnonymousUserAAnonymousUser Posts: 49,671
    edited 09/21/2013 - 11:11 AM
    I wrote something - not sure where it went

    Will try again later
  • All my Drs changed this year and it has been hard. No one wants to be responsible for pain meds. Primary Care thinks Pain Management should, but they just do tx and injections. New Ortho will be seen next month, New Psychiatrist also, I agree Drs don't like to deal with suffering, but they have lots of pts they just maintain and don't fix, Diabetics, COPD, Sickle Cell, Dementia. I think we are singled out as Chronic Pain because of the meds and all the news. Just read 2 articles today about how they are trying to reduce access because of addition, but the reality is addicts are a small % of pain pts, and most of the Drs aren't rude, but there are some. I have come across 2 in the last 23 years as a patient, and a few more while working in the hospital.
  • terror8396tterror8396 Posts: 1,832
    edited 09/23/2013 - 6:59 AM
    if you go to a pain clinic, more often than not, they don't like to give pain meds. I don't use a clinic, i see a private pain doctor. look for pain doctor not pain clinic. also this crap about drs don't like to deal with suffering is disingenous at best. they would not be drs if they did not like to treat people. no wonder people have issues with pain drs with an attitude like that. maybe a different attitude would work wonders.
    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • sandisandi Posts: 6,343
    edited 09/23/2013 - 6:57 AM
    One is an interventionalist- this type of pain treatment practice specializes in the interventions used to treat and manage pain- i.e. injections, radio frequency ablations, TENS, physical therapy, massage, accupuncture, meditation, therapy, water and counseling at times, neuropathic type of medications, and of course spinal cord stimulation and pain pump implants, notice I did not say maintenence of the pump.
    The second type is a conventional or traditional pain management practice, one that does all of the above but also uses medication as part of it's treatment protocals when they feel that the other options have failed.
    However, even in those treatment practices, assumption of meds only treatment is not going to happen , until you have given all of the other modalities a fair chance, even if you have had them before, most will want you to do them again, using their doctor.
  • Anelsen15 I just wanted to thank you for your thoughtful comments above. Hope u r feeling ok tonite. Alsmom
  • Drs like to treat people and see the benefits. Spinning their wheels with chronic patients brings a whole different mindset. Most of my patients had chronic heart, lung.or kidney issues. So after 18 years working in the hospital, I am not disingenuous
    I had a Dr I worked with at a teaching hospital tell me chronic pain patients are the least favorite patient because Drs feel like they can't fix them. I hope she was not passing that sentiment on to her students
  • as one who likes to read the boards and who goes back in archives and reads the older posts, to see how the posts tend to change with how pain management changes. And by that I mean when it was a more open field, members had no problem talking about how great the meds are and the person posting should be on narcotics. Now when it's almost impossible to get narcotics for pain management, the posts are more along the lines of well what other modalities are you using, you should try everything else first before ever trying narcotics. It's just something I have noticed and other boards do it as well. Just an interesting observation.
  • dilaurodilauro ConnecticutPosts: 9,845
    I think the DEA and the government has put a lot of pressure of the medical field when it comes to prescribing narcotics.
    That was a good move. There were way too many doctors who would write narcotic scripts as if they were handing out candy. Those are the doctors the crackdown was after.

    There are so many doctors that do not worry about the DEA. Those are the doctors that understand their patient needs and realize what should be prescribed. I have been on narcotics on and off for the past 35 years and steady for the past 10 years. Not once have any of my doctors, especially the one I have for the pat 8 years balked about writing a script for me.
    It was all a matter of justification. When a doctor knows that a patient needs a certain medication, they will write the script, narcotic or not. To them, its the right thing to do and they are not concerned if a government agency is going to audit them, because they can provide all the rationale needed.

    But I agree that there are many doctors out there that have become a bit gun shy. That is why we do see more and more doctors hesitate to write narcotic scripts and then to re-write them. This is NOT a change in the way pain management needs to be handled, it IS a change in the way some doctors have reacted.
    Ron DiLauro Spine-Health System Administrator
    I am not a medical professional. I comment on personal experiences
    You can email me at: rdilauro@veritashealth.com
  • if i had a choice, i would take the side of a doctor over a patient any day. to have to put up with people saying they are in chronic pain when they are not is not really a good way to work. they have to see people who are trying to scam them and to say they are not is being dishonest. i was waiting years ago with my old pain dr and a woman came in and demanded to see him without an appointment and said she wanted the pills he used to give her. she could not remember the name but she was adamant about it. what is bad is that the office let her see the dr. she had to wait but this shows one that pain drs for the most part are not mean or jerks. they will go out of their way to help people and what is the probem with wanting to see two sides of an issue especially with pain drs. come on now. get real. some of you guys will support anyone who comes on and states they are in pain and can't get meds. and if someone tries to go against the post some of you will gang up and jump all over them. i know from personal experience.
    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • for many reasons over the last 20 years or so.........and will continue to change as there are new methods and medications available to treat chronic pain. In part, the attitude that any complaint of pain automatically justified a prescription for narcotics is gone, and the complaint of pain is the 5th vital sign attitude that was prevalent in the last 20 years is also changing...
    I believe that pain should be treated, but that doesn't necessarily mean that that treatment should automatically include opiates.
    All of the current methods available work to some degree or another at reducing pain. Some are more effective than others, but each modality contributes to reducing pain by some amount.
    Chrissys mom was right , there used to be a trend that if someone popped onto a forum somewhere, there was an almost automatic response that the new patient/member 'deserved' to be put on opiates and almost at any dose that they felt they needed...we've seen it here and across forums everywhere that deal with chronic pain patients with almost any illness....but we are dealing with a science /evidence based thought process in the field these days, so that requires that coming in complaining of pain without the evidence to back up whatever the claimed diagnosis is, is not going to happen any longer.
    Complaints of only opiods work to manage my pain are not flying, when there is scientific evidence to the contrary. Claims of 'allergies' to every narcotic but certain ones capable of being abused , but no issues with the very same medication in stronger dosages but abusable are not going to fly.....
    I have had lots of doctors over my 49 years, for various conditions, and I have had a few that allowed their ego's to get in the way of providing good treatment, but overall my experiences have been very good with the majority of doctors. If they believe that the patient is in fact in need of treatment, most of them will go to the ends of the earth to make sure that the patient gets it.....however, on the flip side of that, they expect that the patient is going to be compliant , and a partner in their care, and is going to get the studies and tests done to confirm that the 'treatment ' is in fact necessary.
  • All doctors are absolutely not very nice people. They are just as human as you and I. Just because they put on a white coat and throw a stethoscope around their necks does not make them a caring person. They should be, given their profession but unfortunately it doesn't appear to work that way. My experiences with doctors has for the most part been positive but there have been some, well, I will just say my day would have been a whole lot better if I didn't have to see them!!

    I don't think judging a person harshly or negatively when they come here for support and advice is not very productive. Why would anyone want to make anyone feel so bad about themselves the second they come through the door. They are probably feeling a little down before they come in and for someone to add to that feeling is beyond me.

    How can anyone say that they would always take a doctors side over a patient side?? Doctors are not ALWAYS right and if they were there would never be any mis-diagnosis.

    anelsen15, I'm so sorry it took you so long to get a proper diagnosis. I would imagine you suffered for a very long time without proper treatment.

    I'm not trying to step on any toes here.....just wanted to add my 2 cents, for whatever it's worth. I sincerely hope everyone is doing well today :-)
  • ignore the word "don't" in my second paragraph, plz.
  • When I first had my accident I wish I had read this Manual. I was really fit and healthy and had no idea about spine pain - especially as I didn't look different. I also thought people were scamming their pain cause they didn't look any different so was probably as bad as everyone else and didn't understand it is our central nervous system. This is the manual that I wish I had read years ago. I have taken it from another post on this site.


    Hope this helps you to understand what you may be in for with intractable pain. It is written by a Dr, who is pretty upfront on the treatment you may be in for from some not just Dr's but other people as well. Another piece of knowledge from this site that really helped me is the Dermatone Chart Sandi uses as an Avatar. I had never heard of these either and this had helped me understand my pain and where it radiates.
  • AnonymousUserAAnonymousUser Posts: 49,671
    edited 09/27/2013 - 5:40 PM
    [My experiences with doctors has for the most part been positive but there have been some, well, I will just say my day would have been a whole lot better if I didn't have to see them!! ]

  • The problem with these kind of people is they deal with all these issues day in & day out & don't consider other peoples feelings.I have had plenty of rude docs/consultants who look down on you & treat you like second class citizens.I always think I bet they wouldn't be rude to their Private patients !!
  • I see you have been there too, huh? :-/
  • and glad to move on. My last MD (neurosurgeon) was put off by my knowledge (worked in hospital many years) and majored in Human Anatomy and Osteology in college and my need to know all that he knew about me - he was a new Dr (to me)and when I offered him a summary of my spinal hx, he did not want it and did not care. While talking with him I realized he did not take much time to review my chart, which if he was going to do a good job would have taken a minimum of an hour, if he was going to do a great job would have taken him days. I want a Dr that will be happy I want to be an active participant in MY health.
  • It is not true about the way Drs treat pt, based on payment, One of the best hospital I work in was a community, not for profit, where most of the patients were medicare, or no pay. It was close to the border with Mexico and we had pts cross to get to our hospital.
    Also when I thought I wasn't getting seen quickly enough I went to see a Dr I knew and let him know, I was paying for the visit, and I did not see any difference in some of the Drs I see as part of military healthcare. Don't know where to find the best care, but if you have a teaching hospital near you that might be a good start. The student Drs I have come across are so eager, want to know everything and actually want to make a difference in your life.
  • terror8396tterror8396 Posts: 1,832
    edited 09/29/2013 - 6:40 PM
    I think that some of you who insist that doctors are rude and no responsive to them should look in the mirror. . For most of you that deals with pain doctors. Maybe the the way you come across or your demands are what put doctors off. What comes first, the chicken or the egg.. It is amazing the hostility from some when I support the doctor's side for the most part. So what if I speak from only my own experience. Maybe there is a reason why I have not experienced doctors who are rude. Has your heart doctor been rude, or your kidney dr been rude, or your dermatologist or allegerist been rude? It only seems to be pain doctors from these posts. Why?.

    Post edited by the Spine Health Moderation Team
    Please review the forum rules prior to posting at these links for more information.

    I have 4 fusions from L5-3, the latest last May '12 where they fixed my disc that broke.They went through my side this time. I take 40 mg of oxycontin 4x a day and 4 fenatyl lollipops 300 micro gms 4x a day.
  • kamgramkkamgram Posts: 483
    edited 09/29/2013 - 6:36 PM
    I have seen and worked with many doctors over the years. I am not saying I am an expert because far from it. I know from my experiences that specialists spend less time with patients and they can be harsh and no bedside manner. My husband's heart surgeon was not rude but he would come in look at his incision while asking if he had questions and would be out the door while PA or NP would spend time answering any and all questions. My husband did not like him but I told him even though he had the personality of a rock he is trained to save lives and he doesn't see patients on long term basis. That said I had a talk with his PA about the surgeon and his attitude. Probably never reached surgeon but made me feel better. I can go on and on about some rude doctors...My mama's oncologist...My neurosurgeon at Duke...my first orthopedics...numerous ER doctor's.

    I have also seen some awesome doctors. I have had doctor's hold my hand while I bawled my eyes out and my family physician who also takes care of my pain meds has brought me books to read and food after surgery. Yes, I did work for her but most docs in office were very kind. Had one doc who was only interested in almighty dollar. He would overcharge Medicare by bringing patients in numerous times...such as to go over labs when they were office 2 days prior or to talk to patient about protime INR directions which was our job but he realized he could charge for doc visit instead of nurse visit. To see him treat patients so bad and refuse to Rx pain meds or ADD meds until he was made to by our administrator. I can't stand him and so glad I don't work there around him anymore.

    Now, working in medical field have also seen my share of horrible patients but I have always tried my best to put myself in their shoes. Doesn't always work, some people are just argumentative *EDIT* and you can't please them. We nurses have decided that Web md is the devil when some patients come in already diagnosing themselves, lol. I have been on both sides as patient and employee and have seen some very bad physicians, PAs, NPS and nurses as well as patients. I think my issue is it only takes one bad experience with a bad physician to make you Leary of all such as my husband's heart surgeon. He hates going to any doctor now and have to force him to. So I agree with many on here who have complained about being treated bad by doctors. I would also like to let some know that even though they think they have good relationship with doctor. I have heard more complaints about patient after they leave. Doctors vent to us alot and a patient who thinks they are perfect gets complained about many many times and the «perfect» patient is one we usually watch.

    Sorry this was so long but I wanted to post about both sides from my perspective instead of only one side. There is NO perfect caregiver or patient!


    Post edited by the Spine Health Moderation Team
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