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Failed pill count

brandysue50bbrandysue50 Baldwinsville NYPosts: 46
Has anyone had a random pill count? I've been getting 5mg of oxycodone for 4 years and my spine and wellness clinic and in feb they did a "random" pill count. I was 16 pills short. They accused me for giving them away, which is not true. On the bottle it says 1-2 every 4 hours. I took it that way. But it did say max 6, so a couple of times I went over by one. So now they say I can never get narcotic pills from them again. Has anyone else had that problem?
I have DDD, Lumbago, 6. Lumbar radiculopathy, Myofascial pain syndrome. I'm not on any pain medications now.


  • Brandy Sue, it is my understanding that the 6 max per day trumps the 2 every 4 hours...you could take two every four hours, but after six pills you have reached no more for that 24 hour period

    ...so if your Rx is for 180, that would be 6 per day for 30 days no matter how you spread them out during that 24 hour timeframe....if you took more than 1every four hours, you will be over you 6 max per day...then you have screwed yourself come pill count time

    I hope I made sense
  • Unfortunately with a failed pill count, it makes the doctor much less trusting in a relationship. And a script that reads 1-2 every six as needed means that you should begin with one pill and if that is not doing the trick, only then take the second pill. And the maximum 6 a day will trump the other instructions. As PM scripts are often written for 30 days, and at 180 pills per script, it does equal out to six a day. I know that can be confusing, but unfortunately it is the patients job to clarify with the doctor.

    Ultimately, because of the amount of pills that you were short, it doesn't sit well with doctors. It makes it seem as if you were taking more than prescribed, which unfortunately you were. My advice would be to try and gain their trust back. Be willing to try non narcotic options for awhile. Let them know that you're serious about wanting to rebuild the relationship.
  • brandysue50bbrandysue50 Baldwinsville NYPosts: 46
    I went to my primary dr today and she said I am not allowed to get narcotics ever again anywhere because im on the bad drug user list because of this. I've tried 5 differant medications including a fentyl patch in the last month. Without any pain relief. I'm costing medicad alot of money Im sure.
  • brandysue50bbrandysue50 Baldwinsville NYPosts: 46
    Well when I talked to the nurse the last week, because the 16 missing pills I am now being sent to a psychiatrist that specializes in opiate addiction next week for evaluation.
  • I always say check with the dr. this is my knowledge only beacause I have a read that there have been so many regulations place on drs and PM, and pharm, and so many drugs that have hit the narcotic list now...years ago before PM and "pill counts" which I've never heard of, usually its a monthly urine test to renew your script.
    Agagin, call your dr, make an appt, discuss with him your concerns id the no more then 6 a day isn't doing it maybe its time to try a new drug, but it would be less of a surprise to him, if you called him and discussed , maybe a flare up get his ok to increase to try to get your pain out of that flare u, or prescribe a short term to get you over that flare up. they have to CTA too.., while taking care of the patients pain management.
    This can't be happening
  • brandysue50bbrandysue50 Baldwinsville NYPosts: 46
    edited 04/18/2015 - 9:08 PM
    I went to the xxxxxx last week. Rob said I"m not giving you oxycodone anymore. He "claimed" that I called them 50 times in a month. Whoever told him that is a stupid liar. I'm trying to get ahold of my phone company to see if thats true. Now I'm going to get the country health involved in this because I believe I've been treated unfairly. Its not fair they will give drugs to middle aged hippie men who do weed but not nice normal lady like me who don't do anything.
  • Hi. Is this the first month that you've ever run short? Do you normally fill your prescriptions early? Did all of this start because you requested an early appointment because you knew you were going to run out?
    Sorry for all of the questions.
    I know people who have been dumped by their pain management doctor but this seems to all be a bit extreme.
    Are you sure it was a 'Random' pill count? If you've been filling your prescriptions earlier & earlier they would have concerns.
    If you don't fill early, what do you usually do when you run out?

    If your symptoms have suddenly got much worse & this is the first time you've run short you really need to make an appointment with your doctor to discuss your symptoms & options. 16 is a lot of pills to be short. If this is a 1 time thing I'd be concerned about what's caused this sudden change.

    Is the psychiatrist an addiction specialist or a chronic pain specialist? There's a big difference between the 2?

    Sorry. I need a bit more information before I can make suggestions. ;-)
    Osteoarthritis & DDD.
  • dilaurodilauro ConnecticutPosts: 9,846
    Situation where you take more than what the prescription was written for.

    Some much depends on the patient them self. Doctors see when there is a patient just looking for some narcotic to help them. They ask for this one or that one saying nothing helps. The doctors see through this. So when one of these patients are "missing" some pills they could be dismissed immediately. Where as when a patient has proven their honesty, a one time problem may be acceptable.
    Ron DiLauro Spine-Health System Administrator
    I am not a medical professional. I comment on personal experiences
    You can email me at: rdilauro@veritashealth.com
  • I've had occasions when I've over done things or had a fall, for whatever reason none of my usual 'rescue' tricks are working for me. In my experience it's always best to phone my pain management doctor. There have been times that he's told me to take more of my meds. Once he prescribed something different that was more appropriate for the pain I was suffering. Most importantly he can judge from my symptoms why I'm in more pain than usual & decide if he needs to see me urgently to evaluate the situation.
    Self medicating & masking new symptoms without consulting a specialist can be a really bad idea.
    Osteoarthritis & DDD.
  • That is probably the best advice I have heard yet. The only problem and I do not think it is very rare that there is many doctor offices who are horrible with calling you back in a timely manner. In fact I had one doctor who a GP ( I was in a HMO at the time and stuck with him) that I called on a tues morning stating that I had been sick to my stomach and was vomiting this black stuff all night and was dizzy. After 3 phones calls and being told he would call me back I went to the ER at 7pm after I realized my doctor was not going to call me back. It was a good thing I went when I did because I had a bleeding ulcer and about 20 min after I got to the ER I passed out due to blood lose and was in shock. After spending 3 days in ICU , getting 4 units of blood and having surgery I was released from the hospital. When I got home my answering machine showed my doctor returned my phones calls 30 mins before I got home from the hospital. In the message my doctor stated to go to the drug store and buy something over the counter that helps with sea sickness. Since I live alone if I had not gone to the ER when I did I doubt I would be around today. Unfortunately I was stuck with this guy for another 8 months since the HMO had no other doctors taking new patients.
  • brandysue50bbrandysue50 Baldwinsville NYPosts: 46
    I go to a brand new PM on friday. My last PM spine center dumped saying there was a "dispruption in patient provider relationship". I havent been prescribed any narcotics except the fentyl patch a few months ago. I told them to stop it because it didnt work. My question is will I be refused nacrotic pills at the new place because what happpened at the last pm with my pill count?
  • ctfwnogfcctfwnogf Posts: 2
    edited 05/04/2015 - 3:30 PM
    Unless they are affiliated, I doubt you'll have a problem. Opiates are addictive and have a strong black market - so expect any reputable pain management center to watch them very closely. They have huge exposure and liability.
  • brandysue50 said:
    I go to a brand new PM on friday. My last PM spine center dumped saying there was a "dispruption in patient provider relationship". I havent been prescribed any narcotics except the fentyl patch a few months ago. I told them to stop it because it didnt work. My question is will I be refused nacrotic pills at the new place because what happpened at the last pm with my pill count?
    If I'm reading your post correctly, you said to "stop it because it didn't work". Are you saying the Fentanyl patches didn't work? Your asking specifically about getting narcotic pills at your next doctor? My guess is that if the Fentanyl patches didn't work, no other opioid pill is going to work good for you either. Fentanyl is one of the strongest medications available on the market. Fentanyl is used for end of life cancer pain and doctors are extremely careful prescribing it because of how strong it is and the abuse potential. I would strongly suggest you keep an open mind to any therapy they recommend to include non-opioid medications. There are some very good non-narcotic medications to include topical creams to help with pain.

    Several Epidurals, L4-S1 360 ALIF, Numerous Facet Joint Injections, RFA x2
  • dilaurodilauro ConnecticutPosts: 9,846
    edited 05/05/2015 - 5:37 AM
    just because one doctors practice is not affiliated with another.
    There is a nation wide data base that most practices have access to. Your patient information, specifically any problem in terms of narcotics will be available to all.

    My suggestion is that when you go see the new doctor, be upfront with them and explain the situation you were in with your previous doctor.. It will then be up to them along with how yo present everything to determine how the next course of action will play out.

    I have known people in your situation and when they do as I suggested, they dont have any problems with the new doctor.
    Just never go into a new doctor thinking that what happened before is not going to be known by the new doctor.
    Ron DiLauro Spine-Health System Administrator
    I am not a medical professional. I comment on personal experiences
    You can email me at: rdilauro@veritashealth.com
  • you sound so much like me , I can hear myself talking through you. Please let me give the advice that was lovingly given to me. One of my posts is entitled, once a criminal always a criminal. I have been through everything under the sun when It comes to narcotics. I had a big problem with them. almost los t everthing because of them,, even though I had every reason to be on them. I hurt my back at work in 03, took pain meds until it became evident that I needed surgery which I had in 06. a lumbar fusion with a laminectomy. I fought city hall to cover my pain. I couldn't believe it! I still have pain, i'd say. I doctor shopped and overtook my scripts just wanting to feel normal again. of course, I wound up in rehab for them an booze. with a new and total respect for pain meds, I start on a journey of non narcotic meds which seem adequate. that un til this past April. I had be gun befo re this having difficulty walking. fast forward to today. I can barely walk, sit, drive ect. and need surgery. I first have to have my cervical spine operated on and then the lumbar. I am close to cauda equine(sp). sorry so long winded but want to give you the whole story. so ok, now I need the oxycodones again. I am in a methadone program and take it daily, but does nothing for the pain. NOW, when I ask for these, I am questioned, I am untrusted, I am an addi ct. is it fair? Certainly not. Do I need them, yes. I have had two PM refuse to see me. The clinic counts my pills and I passed. so, let me get to the advice part. my sister said to me, Kathy, you look like that's what your all about, like you seek them instead of more answers on your condition. The more desparate you become, the more desparate you look. uh,,, did it hurt my feelings that she said this, yes. I am myself, I cant be anything else. I don't know about you Brandy, but it is my intention to use these as prescribed(good girl that I am tee hee), have the surgery and get off this ride. i'm sure it depresses you as it does me to be labled. yet, I HAVE to understand. what choice do I have? please let me know how you are doing. Dilauro is right. you must establish a relationship with your doctor. Be honest and forthcoming. hope to hear from you soon-kathy
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