hey paul,ya ,zaniflex puts me outlike all get out..but.. my body chemistry isnt too compatable with it,it slows my breathing down,heart everything to a very low state,kinda scary that when you take it,yu wake up gasping for air,an only when i take it,no other time,its rat killer potent to me,so i stopped taking it! my main issues are function related when ya dont sleep for long periods,your cognitive skills are the first to go,the last are your emotional defenses,thats why irrational behavior is normalized when in the extremis of days. at least i do.
Since i drove for 20 years and always had 70 hour weeks,i learned to deal with a lot of issues of lacking sleep,i feel a little better than others,not any thing special,just know how and why i am acting a certain way,i know myself,and begin to self evaluate constantly,so my behavior wouldnt affect my work.
At 100 hours a week of work time,I seemed to shut down my emotions to easyer deal with the everyday issues,you know what i mean? stuff that normaly slides of the back,becomes an almighty chip when you dont sleep.

I dealt with hazmat on a daily basis so my game had to be on,thats how you grow a company.I had a support structure in place of people with similar experience and knew what and when to watch out for each other.
the sadness comes befor the depression(duh) then follows the anger.I think it comes from not having a relief from the line,constant awarness,hyper awarness etc,from the fight or flight reflex,sets in i think from the strain your body/mind is under,then comes the anger,why am i heremwhy is this happening,why, why, why...
I think this is near the point where you make the concious decision to fold..or fight..not get angry and fight,not you r self and others,just decide to turn the anger and negativity toward the psychological issues,

then when you have such a source of energy..then .you can begin to rebuild.

instead of feeling drained, now you learn to manage the emotion to start a new life path,turn the despair into determination, you decide to rebuilld the wreckage of all your life and move forward.

That anger was what kept me going until i found strength again,a new fortitude ,new tools for life..but..that is another story.

Paul,hang in there and find rest when and where and how you can,i think a persons internal make up determins their ability to manage the issues,i think your tools are well sharp and ready to battle! i find comfort despite the pain in reveling in life,because and beside my infernal memory issues,which help me start every day almost brand new!
i find wonder in all of life,because i am surviving and if not getting ahead,i am HERE..right here,right now,and therefor fully alive in the moment.
I hope you rest soon and find comfort in these experiencs of mine,every one is different, but more the same than we realize..maybe some one has some more insite into this issue we deal with..

Part of my frustration, I think, comes from not being able to sleep or finding something to help me sleep. Laying there hour after hour, night after night makes me crazy. And no one that doesn't experience such profound sleeplessness can understand it. They wonder- why can't you just go to sleep? If I knew the answer to "why" then maybe I could fix it.
I do try to sleep when the urge hits me, but I'm always worried if it will keep me from sleeping the next night. I have only slept for a total of 10 hrs in like 10 days. I normally take Rozerem and Ambien CR at night for sleep but have been out of it for... 10 days! Hopefully I'll get the new prescription in by the end of the week. I have had a constant headache since I started this cycle and I have to admit... I'm so grouchy!

ive slept only because i was up for2-3 days with 2 hrs sleep a night,and school kinda rude when i yawwwwn in my poor teaachers face, oops didnt mean too!...I wonder though..
if ya film a whole bunch of people yawning for an hour,while lecturing on a boring subject on a dvd would sell?

lack of sleep seems to be part of having chronic pain. when i don't get enough sleep i become really "spacey!" i find conversation difficult, doing daily chores is out of the question, i can't figure out what i should be doing. my reactions are slow. when i was younger i could go for several days without sleep and be just fine. now i am 53 and even one night takes away my ability to think and reason! Jenny

Yea i was down at 9 pm yesterday then up at 10.30 till now,ms Jenny,i can relate to you'all on thet point,but i am beyond that point just now,trater ya ime there with ya,maybe we oughta have a spiny country club,open 24/7
Mr Paul,i hope ya found some rest,ime just here floating along the poo creek,in Witts End County! ime loving my new psych 2301 class! but,i need m full facilitys to understand let alone excell in there, so ive been light on the meds,i am trying to balance ..like we've spoken before here between cognizance and relief,well ive done it to my self, a little too far to the thinking side,and i am having some withdrawls,ya,it aint fun, but i am able to almost be as mentaly agile as of old,ive only got the anctiousness and stomach upset going but,ime getting to the point of getting sick,but school is my main focus and i am clinging to that!
my teacher is a borderline spiney,if not already an honorary one..there is so much out there to learn,and frustrated that it is so hard to retain,let alone sit there and have to tolerate my bodys pain language, that is wearing right there,
I hope yo'all find rest,and some peace!tonight

hey trater thanks for getting back to me! i had to do some thing usefull with my life ..so ifigured why not go back to school at 40? all my 'mates are younger than me,and some of that energy rubs off on ya! its great,until you cant keep up,then it gets sad,bt in the mean..i just try to learn as much as i can! i recomend it to everyone! your experience as a spiney will give them a level of maturity and will be great tools for them later in life where they go..they now have an understanding of less ability and will better serve their fellow man ot in the world,in the long run,it will make the world a better place for people of impaired abilitys! and we can all benifit fronm that!

ya, keep that nice overstuffed chair over there by the fireplace,its nice and cozy there..i wonder who else will come?

Ranchhand I definitely feel your pain! Not sleeping is so tough to deal with...I find it heightens the pain I'm experiencing tenfold. Pain that I normally would be able to handle without a problem is too much for me when I'm lacking in the sleep department, which frustrates me horribly (also linked to the whole sleepy-grumpy connection), which makes me feel worse, and on and on and on...
When I was younger I went for about three months straight basically without sleeping, and literally thought I was losing my mind. I became severely depressed and convinced that I was dying. Thinking back on it is really surreal - I can't believe what an effect that severe insomnia had on my entire being. I became sick and confused and truly irrational. Now I have meds (I hear what you're saying about Zanaflex...I take one little innocuous pill and feel like I wake up about a week and half later!). While I do hate taking things like that that knock you out to a degree that is a bit disconcerning, I do like that I have something that I can count on to prevent me from going back to that severe cycle of insomnia.
An odd thing that I have found works wonderfully? Nyquil. That stuff puts me out. And I don't feel groggy the next morning at all. While I rarely use this (Being that I don't want to be taking something for an illness I don't have!) it is helpful to have when I have to get up early and work the next morning. I am a teacher and can't really function when I'm still half doped up on a Zanaflex at 8:30 in the morning!!!
Good luck, and know you're not the only one in this position. It's rough to have chronic pain, and it's so frustrating when the one complete escape (sleep) is so d*mn elusive!
Here's to hoping for sweet dreams for all of us! (Actually screw the dreams, here's to just some good ol' fashioned sleep!) Janiel

I feel Ya. i have problems with sleep.If i do fall asleep at 10pm i'm up before 12.I cant lie in bed after that i just get up and work on stuff (laundry, cleaning, book work) i feel like i'm wasting my time just laying there.I go to a PM Dr. next week maybe that will help.Most of the meds that I have taken make me hyper. Good luck

Ime taking 13 hours this semester. paralegal studys for an associates degree, i hope by next spring. its brutal this semester, ime already wearing my back brace the first weeks in,wheew! usually ime in this condition by mid semester, ohh well, and the education wont stop there, i plan on working for a little while then going back in for a bachelors in??? there are other longer term plans for the future, but for right now just keeping my head on strait seems like a good plan for now.
I had lots of long and hard practice to fight the effects of sleep deprivation, ime lucky i was blessed with those tools to fight the emotional fracture that comes with too much nosleep!
the sad part is the fact that i know ime worn or wearing out, and others who dont have sleep problems just go on acting stupid and wonder why i get tweaked every now and then,and God forbid you try to explain to them whats going on...
knowing the symptoms and effects dont help any when your knee deep in the caveman growly yodeling wide open mouthed yawns(made ya sleepy didnt i)heh heh!

so
where does that leave us red eyed and gritty nerved folks?
well?
ya just go on,
you power through another day on soem kind of caffiene/effedrine/adrenaline)coz you just snapped awake on the commut to school---2 miles down the road from where you thought you were,hypnotized we ya? thats one symptom
youre mind will start to shut down in a self preservation mode, ya saw the smiley cheshire cat(yes, after 40 or so hours you too will get to see the FREEEKY! critter)
or bridges that are not there in the night drive home,or here noises,yes there are auditory halucinations.. to go along with the little song snippet that plays like a never ending vignet in your sleep deprived addled state..were talking goin on 60 hours here.
by now you are in a daze of semi conciosness as you walk into walls and have the weird giggle you get from just having met some one who hasnt slept either. at round 70 hours you are fraying mentally and you are so tired you cant sleep anyway,ya just lay there in a manic//panic.ya..woo hoo ..greeeaaatttt fun.
not.
you can and probably will hurt youre self and others around you when you get here, soldiers talk to trees, sleep standing up, sleep walk where your overloaded mind shuts down and your the walking sleepyhead
still...
not good.
so i hope some of you guys git some sleep
coz ime starting on the 24th hour..uuuhhgain...dang!

Ranchhand and Erin~
Gosh, I'm so sorry you two are struggling to get some sleep. I'm so impressed with both of you that you are able to get up and trudge on to school. When I go on those no sleeping sprees, my brain is so overactive that I don't think I could handle school. Hang in there and stomp through the trenches and take advantage of the sleep when it finally comes to you. Keep up your hard work with the books! Take care of yourselves....

i finally got round 7 hours solid last night! had to get up mat 4.30 am or so to start on some school work.here it is at 7.40 and beginning the day. thanks for the lifting up i feel some what normal today,hope you are doing well and as is erin!

Sorry bout the sickness..bad trade hmm? well get sleep where and when you can right? ime not picky where and when i get sleepy, ime gonna hit it like baby on candy!
hope the school work is going well!

Sleep deprivation can adversely affect brain function. A 2000 study, by the UCSD School of Medicine and the Veterans Affairs Healthcare System in San Diego,
===============
james
Opiate Addiction

I haven't slept in over 7 years. It's not that I can't go to sleep, it's that I can't STAY asleep. I can fall sleep at the drop of a hat, which sometimes isn't good like when I'm driving or eating. But I can only sleep from 30 min. to 2 hours tops! The pain always wakes me up. I haven't been able to sleep in a bed for this same amount of time also. I have to sleep in a chair sitting straight up or on the sofa the same way. If I try to sleep in the bed I will wake up after about an hour and have the worst, uncontrolled pain imaginable, even if I've just taken a recent dose of my pain med's. So if I even try it, I'm stuck (I had a better word for that) because I can't take additional med's to get it back under any control. I can't lay flat on anything and when I have to have tests done like MRI's, I cry through the whole thing because of the pain. Also, since I have to sleep sitting up, I have no support for my neck and it has made the problems in my neck/C-spine even worse! It's awful! I'm always tired, I have lost my memory, and it makes my pain worse to be so sleep deprived. It's funny, not ha ha funny, but I never realized how many other people were as sleep deprived as I am. At least I know I'm not crazy now. BTW, I have no idea how you are able to remember anything that you are learning in college. I couldn't do that at this point! Great for you!
Sleepy & tired,
Jewels

Hey Erin, make it possible and give yourself all the advantages you can give yourself! early to bed,eat or snuggle with teddy, ime not ashamed, i'll catch a nap here and there if i can. whgen and where i can...ive earned it, and so have you! do whatever it takes to pass the interview.and know deep inside that you did your very best to do whats right. there is no shame in failure if you gave it your all, i only feel bad if i think i didnt try hard enough. go forth and give it the best you have,and then go back if you fall, always fight to get back up[!!!.
And if you have the shakey arm and grimace of pain look, find someone to help you up, and if you fall again..
Then find someone to carry you!
the glory inside that most no one will ever see, is that yopu did your very best,and you know and most importantly feel, you did! so there will be no regrets when the dark teatime of the soul comes to call.
Hold your head uip high, there is no shame in trying and failing, only for not having tryed at all!
Luck to ya!
Ranch

waayy to go erin! score one for the spineys! rest your weary head and git a fresh start tommorrow.your gonna shine and give em heck at school! go forth and dominate them now!

no i dont k now any quick remedies! dang girlie, thaT GOTTA hurt! i wish i could help ya...but ime running on sleep i had saturday..kinda, i slept an hour last night..i think, but its going on awake since sunday noon, so's im kinda fuzzy like a bad television signal. i am so happy for ya on the college entry! were all proud of you here at spine health!!!
Your gonna rock!
I'll talk at chu later, ime gonna go finish up a couple o papers,I hope you git some quality healthy and happy dream filled sleep where ya run and jump and never grow tired K?!
Ranch

go forth and conquer like Atilla or Alexander the Great, mow down the competition like the reaper of knowledge you are!
Ive a out look on people and on finding talent, nurturing them then we will all harvest the benefits!
Go for your dreams, but remember the ones that are remembered the most are the ones who helped others grow and flourish!
I think you will be fine strong and good..to your self and others around you!
find your strength on the inside and fly!