11 Months since failed L5-S1 fusion. How long until hardware "gives out"?

11 Months since failed L5-S1 fusion. How long until hardware "gives out"?

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Brihtwulf
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11 Months since failed L5-S1 fusion. How long until hardware "gives out"?

I was given the news several weeks ago that my fusion from last year had failed and that there was no sign on healing in the bones. The concern then became an issue of how long before the hardware "gave out" as my doctor said. Now, I've been reading about what can actually happen, and it looks more like the hardware damaging the surrounding bone tissue over time. But, I'm not sure if there is a typical "time frame" in which that tends to happen.

How long do I have before I have to start worrying about some other surgery to correct this issue? And what are they going to do once it becomes a problem. I was told that it isn't so much IF the hardware will fail as WHEN it will (which is not encouraging information). Also, is there anything I might be able to do in the meantime to limit the chances of that happening more quickly (aside from the no bending/lifting/twisting)?

I really wish there was someone I could point a finger at, give a good sock in the face, and order them to fix the problem. It's so frustrating having this "sorry, there's not much we can do" response from doctors. They've adjusted my pain medication, but that of course just masks it as I'm sure you all know.

This is a bit of a tangent, but I've actually had several people often say, "wow, aren't you always tired or groggy? Doesn't that medication make you all loopy and drugged out of your mind?" And I just say "No, not really. It just takes the sting off what is otherwise excruciating pain." Anyway, that just popped into my head as I was talking...

If anyone has some advice on this whole "failed fusion" garbage, I'd love to hear it! I am getting some second opinions from a couple different specialists, so at least I have something to hope for. Maybe they'll have a better idea how to proceed.

-JJ

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SpineAZ
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Surgery

Have they proposed a date to go back in ,take out the hardware and fix the problem? Sounds like it's only a matter of time so maybe the sooner the better?

As for the pain med thing.....I totally understand. I have friends who think if I am on disability and on pain meds I must be at home in bed in a haze. Yes, if I handed most of my friends the meds I take and told them to take them they'd pass out on my couch. But you develop what I call a "healthy tolerance to the bad side effects of the meds"

Multiple ACDFs, Multiple Lumbar Fusions; Rt TKR; Rt thumb fusion ; Lt thumb arthroplasty

Bkins
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What type

What type of fusion was done that has failed and was a cage put in?

Brihtwulf
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I believe it's referred to

I believe it's referred to as a PLIF or maybe TLIF? I have 4 screws in the back of my vertebrae, and 2 rods connecting each pair that run vertically. They are at the outside of my back (not that they're actually outside, but they are at the posterior). I also have an artificial disc made of some sort of polymer, and some sort of bone growth protein was used.

The problem is that my bones will not fuse. There is no bone growth or "fusion", so the only thing holding my spine in place is the hardware they used.

So far there has been no talk of plans to go back in to do anything. I was told by my surgeon that surgical intervention would not be useful at this point because it would have the same outcome. My Neuro seemed to have a very "wait and see" attitude about things. (Another reason for the second opinion)

-JJ

jellyhall
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Second opinion is a good idea

Non-fusion (pseudarthrosis) is what we fusion spineys dread. Do you smoke? It is much more common in people who smoke.

I would imagine that the time that the hardware will last must vary with different individuals. I am sure that how you move must make a difference. So, I expect you can put off having problems with the hardware by avoiding bending, lifting and twising. Using good body mechanics will probably help, and also I would imagine that doing approved exercises, particularly to strengthen your core stability will help.

Whether or not there is any chance at all that it might still fuse, I don't know. (I would think unlikely after 11 months) It is still probably worth stopping smoking (if you do) and really eating healthily. Lots of calcium rich food, and lots of green veggies and fruit.

Are you having constant pain?
I really hope that your hardware lasts for a long while yet. I have read of some whose hardware has needed to be removed at about 12 months, but others go several years before their hardware causes problems.

All this is just guessing though!!
None of us posting here are medically trained.
You need to follow your doctor's advice.
I can really understand that you want to talk to people who have been through this and have experienced some sort of hardware failure problems.

Do let us know how you get on, and what the solution is.
We will do all we can to support you through this Smile

Bkins
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Fusion Problems

I had a fusion done in the beginning of 06'. Mine was on level l3-l4. My fusion failed and had to be redone in Jan. of this year. I had a steady 2 years of getting worse and worse almost to the point of not being able to walk. I did not have my disk removed and replaced with a cage on the first go around but did on the second. I had a broken screw on one side and a loose screw on the other. Things kept moving in my spine, which is what happens. In my case after my first surgery in 06', I was told very early on that I could go back to my normal life so I did. It was a big mistake in my opinion as I was doing a lot of firewood type work and knowing what I know now that was totally the wrong thing to do. I blame the doctor for painting a rosy picture and not making me aware that I couldn't go back to my life as it was. After my 3 month post-op visit I never went back and my spine was not checked for a fusion. BIG MISTAKE.

Hardware can be placed in the back, front and side areas of your spine so you are not out of options in my opinion. Maybe you are one that needs your own bone in the cage.

I agree you need to find a very good, fellowship trained surgeon and go from there. A lot of us have more then 2 opinions before we find someone that we are at ease with.

You may get a lot of time from your hardware, also depending on your activity level and bone density, and your age. There is a lot that goes in to this spine stuff so find yourself a good doctor and ask questions.

Is the doctor saying why you may not have fused? Did you use Advil, or Motrin style drugs during your 11 months of waiting? There are a whole host of things that can prevent a person from fusing.

I will say this in closing that the more surgery's you have in the same area the harder it starts to become healing correctly and the harder it is to get through the PT process. This is my experience and opinion only. I am not a doctor.

David

sleeprgirl
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Bone Growth Stimulator

At my 6 month postop visit, it was determined that there was little fusion taking place. My 2 month xray actually looked better than the 6 month xray due to the placement of BMP (from what I'm told). My physical therapist recommended a bone growth stimulator, and I've been wearing it for the last 3 weeks.

There is quite a bit of data that using it up to 9 month postop does grow bone.

Did you wear a bone growth stimulator?

Lisa

Brihtwulf
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Here are my answers to some

Here are my answers to some of the questions posed:

- I don't smoke. Luckily that has never been an issue. Aside from occasional use of a pipe, I've never been a smoker. And the pipe use halted over a year ago as a recommendation about the spinal surgery.

- I was never given the option of a bone growth stimulator. I had an appointment at 3 months out, which showed no growth, but my surgeon simply said "you might not see it until after 6 months, so we'll just wait and see". Well, i got my other testing (MRI, CT, X-ray) done at the 10-10.5 month mark which STILL showed no growth. Up until that point I had heard nothing from my surgeon. And now he simply said, "Well, I don't see any surgical options here so we're just going to have to turn you over to pain management and rheumatology".

Nobody has really thought it that strange that someone start having serious bone and joint issues in their early-mid 20's... Now I'm just waiting on the referrals to those new rheumatology and neurology specialists to get scheduled.

I have a lot of pain, but I try to manage as best as possible without going completely crazy. I use a fentanyl patch and vicodin for the break-through pain. It's certainly not close to "pain free", but that dream ship sailed a long time ago. I'd just settle for lower pain and more mobility. If I'm too active, my pain kicks into overdrive (too brisk of walking, too much stair climbing, too far of walking, etc.) I'm sure you all know the deal.

I'm interested to hear the opinions of these new specialists.

-JJ

mccoch01
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Wow, ME TOO, 11 months NO FUSION

Wow, I had to read your post twice because I thought you were me for a minute there. You sound just like me with your experiences.

I too, had a L5-S1 fusion 11 months ago. An interbody device was used with a DBM protein and two pedicle screws and a rod on the posterior right side. The Surgery was in August of 09, and in October the Orthopedic spine surgeon stated it was "PERFECT", even though I had told him of new pain on my right back side and discomfort in my right leg that I never had before... After PT, 3 ESI's and trigger point injections. I was getting no relief and no idea of what or where the new pain was from. They told me the only thing to do now was a TDR or IDET, neither of which was affordable or insurance would cover, so I left this spine clinic and went to different spine center and they have done a CT Mylegram last month, only to find "no evidence of a solid fusion". The new Orthopedic doctor stated that the DBM protein which was used in the first surgery has a low success rate in lumbar fusions, he also said that "IT WAS A CUTE OPERATION" (clearly a dig on the other surgeon) but it was no where suitable for a lumbar fusion.

The new clinic is now suggesting that I get it repaired with a 360 FUSION which is a dual approach surgery where they enter from the front (anterior) to the left and below the navel and go in to remove the existing device, then they add their hardware and then the roll me to my posterior side and go in there to remove the 2 screws and the rod, then they add 4 screws and two rods. This Orthopedic doctor said to plan on 8 weeks out of work and that it would be a harder surgery to recover from, supporting what others have stated in previous posts.

I got my images and reports and now will go see a NeuroSurgeon to get his opinion on which way to proceed because I want to make sure that I do not repeat this pain any time soon, and others had warned me before not to use an Ortho Surgeon on my spine, but what did I know then.....hind sight is definitely 20:20. I have done so much searching and talking to people that I am so ready to get this over with, but I want to be sure that I am making the correct decisions at this point.

I agree with everyone posting here, each person is a bit different for sure, and the points about the pain meds are so true, i am still working, but find it more and more difficult each day. I am a 48 yr old male, pretty average build, non-smoker. I medicate when i wake up, then mid day, then evening, then I take Ambien-CR to sleep.....it is getting old...or is that just me...LOL....
I did start taking the Cymbalta and it has a component that works with on the brain signals for pain management, but it makes me feel a bit to blah blah...so I am debating on whether or not to continue it or not. I will probably have the "re-do" salvage operation in September (12 month mark) and hopefully will be much better than I am now.

I do wish you the best in whatever decision that you make, it does suck to be in pain, and hopefully your doctors will get you back in shape...best to you all and thanks for the support that you all give each of us in our lives.
Smile

Bkins
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8 weeks recovery

I don't believe anyone going through a 360 could go back to work full time in 8 weeks. It just ain't gonna happen. You may be able to talk to people on the phone but as far as going to your workplace and lasting a day it just isn't going to happen at the 8 week mark. This is my opinion based on having a 360 revision done. I am a few years older but not by much. A 360 revision is a big surgery.

David

ohsosilly
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failed fusion L5-S1 possible revision surgery

Hi there everyone, I'd like to find out who has had revision surgery for failed L5-S1 fusion. I had laminectomy L4,L5 & S1, diskectomy L5-S1, PEEK w/bone graft inserted for stabilization, lumbar interbody fusion for anterior column support w/bone graft, posterolateral fusion and of course 4 screws with rods...you know the story. My surgeon says he doesn't see much bone growth at this point, so he may want to go in and put some of my own bone to see if it fuses that way. I am having excruciating pain and it is getting more difficult to go to work daily, and even do day-to-day activities.

Have any of you had the revision surgery to correct this problem? I am reading that it can be a difficult and long healing process. How was it to go through this, and has it helped with the pain once there is an actual fusion?

Oh my, some of you have been through so much more than I have and my heart goes out to you.

Thanks to any who respond.

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