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Scar tissue



  • Thanks for the link. I read this awhile back and it looks very promising. I wonder if they already started clinical trials to see if this treatment is efficient in reducing the fibrosis. Has your doctor read this? I wonder what he thinks about it. Please let me know when you start this therapy and I would be more than happy to follow your progress.
  • I'm going to start taking the Vitamin E daily now and present this case study to the doc and see if he will prescribe the Trental. I think it sounds VERY promising. I know a surgeon wants to perform surgery, but this has to be worth a shot for a couple months to see what effect it has, right?

    I'll keep you updated on what he says. If it works, it may help you too! :)
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  • The reason I think it's scar tissue is I actually put more credence in the Radiologist's opinion. Maybe I am wrong to do that, but he probably sees more MRI film on a daily basis than my surgeon does. I dunno. The other reason is that my discs were contained bulges and were "shaved" during surgery so I don't think I could have any disc material floating around entraping a nerve. Again, I could be wrong. Maybe it is bone material, that would be a reasonable answer, but wouldn't that be more discernable on the MRI? Again, I dunno.

    I have unilateral symptoms for the most part. Left foot cramps, Left lateral calf tingles and Left hip is sore as hell when I walk or stretch.

    My current plan is, to stop the ESI's (last one hardly worked AT ALL) discuss exploratory surgery (he already said he would do that if ESI's don't work)(one level vs. two that I just had shouldn't be as hard to recover from either) and if scar tissue was the problem, using a laser to clear out as much as possible and then start the pentoxifylline / Vit E treatment at about 3 or 4 weeks post op to head off the epidural fibrosis formation.

    See,...I've got it figured out,...LOL! Now I have to SELL it to him. I figured I would take the case study with me and present it in such a manner as to how it could help his surgical results on future patients and I could be a guinea pig for him (in a sense).

    BTW,..the pentoxifylline is a peripheral artery drug that is also used for neuropathic injuries.

    What do you think Gwennie?
  • The last MRI showed that the L4/L5 disk had excellent height and the saggital view didn't look like it had herniated, but in the axial view, the foramin is dark. I'm not an expert, but something is in there and I have thought it could be bone material too at first instinct. My surgeon isn't going to tell me everything he's thinking and because he is already hinting about going back in to have a look, may speak volumes in itself.

    I could've broken a blood vessel or just had some blood pooling in that area after surgery which would promote epidural fibrosis in and of itself. I dunno.

    I see the "injection" guy for a foolow-up on Monday. He'll want to inject me again and I'm not going to let him. I will ask him to refer me back to my surgeon after I ask him what his opinion is now that the ESI failed miserably.

    What problems are you still having specifically? Are they related to the fusion or scarring?

    I do so much research online, I think they hate seeing me come in because I have so many questions and I understand their lingo so they can't just sneak something by me...LOL!

    I wish there was a better answer for these back problems. People don't understand how you feel until they injure themselves. Hang in there Gwennie!
  • the Epidural Fibrosis isn't causing your pain? That nerve can't be a happy nerve! Your condition is somewhat similar to that case study using the PTX and Vit E. Maybe that could help you also?

    Stay in touch Gwennie!
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  • It shouldn't be there AND it doesnt make much sense that when you walk the nerve gets inflammed without it being tethered, in other words, the immobilizing of the nerve by the scar tissue OUTSIDE the nerve sheath will cause micro friction of the nerves on the inside of the nerve sheath. The nerve roots are like a rubberband that stretch a little and recoil when walking / running / sitting etc. Make sense? I've been researching how some surgeons are using Lasers to melt away scar tissue endoscopically and have had excellent results (Laser Lysis of Adhesions). Less bleeding = less chance of recurrent scarring. I don't know how reputable the Laser Spine Institute is, but I will consider them if noone locally will do it that is reputable. I'm a WC case and if they won't approve my surgery, I will take legal action if necessary. I have a lawyer that I've consulted. I may have to pay for the procedure up front then fight for reembursment,...I'll do that if I have to. I'm not going the SCS route for something that I believe can be corrected reasonably still.

    As far as hyjacking the thread...we are still on topic and I would like for Meydey to chime in too. We're okay. ;)
  • Wow Gwennie, I can't believe you don't take anything. That's amazing. How do you manage when you have to walk around or go somewhere? You're like me, walking increases my pain and so does standing, and of course sitting. I do experience pain while laying down but it's bearable; it does hurt worse when rolling over or side to side. Getting out of bed is a trial.

    I admit to using a cane all the time, even at home in fear of falling. I noticed that my balance is a bit off and wonder if it's related to the permanent nerve damage at right S1. There is also nerve pain on the left and the scar tissue is pressing on that nerve root and thecal sac. You have to be a rocket scientist to make sense of it all at times :?

    I wonder what scarring on the nerve looks like. I feel bad that you and Buckeye are having problems like these. It would be so cool if you got that appt with that California doctor.

    Buckeye I hope your doctor has an open mind and hears you out about your ideas. I'm all for being proactive in one's care. I'm sure it will go okay and maybe the doctor will be on the same page as you.

    Take it easy my friends :H
  • No problem :) Everyone has been so helpful and I have learned so much. I always appreciate your posts because they are so smart and informative; you really do your research too. I hope they find what's aggravating your pain soon. Take care
  • I saw my physiatrist today (injection guy) and explained to him that the last ESI only worked for two days and he told me that he can't give me another injection because I've had 3 in the last 12 months, not that he would anyway. He believes that I would benefit more by having exploratory surgery at the L4/L5 level to see if it is in fact scar tissue like the radiologist reported and if so, use of a laser to melt it away should fix the problem. The use of a laser is something I need to discuss with the surgeon since he wasn't sure if that would be a method he regularly uses or not. I also shared the PTX-Vit E case study with him and his thoughts were pretty positive about trying that to minimize any scar tissue development in the infant stages. I need to discuss that with the surgeon too and I will. My gut feeling is that either I bled after surgery sometime and that pooling of blood in the foramin promoted tha scarring or the scaring to the disk adhered to the nerve so that the disc movements yank on the nearby nerve. We'll see on June 8th when I have my appointment with the surgeon and hopefully schedule the procedure.

    MR Neurography is a diagnostic test I was very interested in too, but the imaging centers that I went to didn't offer that test and they really didn't know what I was talking about. That's Columbus Ohio for ya. LOL! My sister lives in California. It would be worth doing the test to visit. :)

    Gwennie, would the PTX-Vit E help your scarring even though it could be on the inside of the nerve sheath (neuroma)? Have you discussed that with your doc? Will you? Meydey, have you read that study? It sure looks worth a shot being so disabled by scar tissue.

    Honestly,...I would and AM taking the risk of dying to get my life back on the surgery table. If that wasn't an option, I would be taking the PTX and Vit E (already taking) because that study is so compelling.

    I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but it would make sense that the medical community would find a way to control scarring around sensitive structures some how considering fibrosis is a major cause of failed back surgery syndrome. Maybe they don't want to though. :? It will be another costly surgery for them to go back in and remove that "by product" of the initial surgery.

    Maybe I'm just losing it! 8}

  • This is so compelling! :) I really think it will well when you have this upcoming appt; and it's also good to know your surgeon is so open minded. Many will have a ego attack if you make suggestions ;) I am looking forward to hear how it goes.

    I read this study a few months ago and I also wondered if the PTX/Vitamin E works only in beginning stages of fibrosis formation. I had initially tried another ESI when this was found to reduce the pain and inflammation but it didn't work. It's true that you shouldn't have more than 3 ESI's a year, but some doctors go ahead and do more than that. I had 5 in one year- 3 preop and 2 post op in 2007.

    I understand you're trying anything to get your life back-we all want this but at the same time we must proceed with caution. I understand spinal surgeries come with risk and having a good surgeon increases the outcome for success. I know everything will go alright for you >:D<

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