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Scar tissue



  • It shouldn't be there AND it doesnt make much sense that when you walk the nerve gets inflammed without it being tethered, in other words, the immobilizing of the nerve by the scar tissue OUTSIDE the nerve sheath will cause micro friction of the nerves on the inside of the nerve sheath. The nerve roots are like a rubberband that stretch a little and recoil when walking / running / sitting etc. Make sense? I've been researching how some surgeons are using Lasers to melt away scar tissue endoscopically and have had excellent results (Laser Lysis of Adhesions). Less bleeding = less chance of recurrent scarring. I don't know how reputable the Laser Spine Institute is, but I will consider them if noone locally will do it that is reputable. I'm a WC case and if they won't approve my surgery, I will take legal action if necessary. I have a lawyer that I've consulted. I may have to pay for the procedure up front then fight for reembursment,...I'll do that if I have to. I'm not going the SCS route for something that I believe can be corrected reasonably still.

    As far as hyjacking the thread...we are still on topic and I would like for Meydey to chime in too. We're okay. ;)
  • I've been thinking about going out to CA to get a MR neurograph with Dr. Aaron Filler. Are you familiar with him and his work? It would better image the damaged nerve and hopefully tell me what the problem is.
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  • I have been told I have a neuroma on L5 and that it is like a frayed electrical cord...the little "nervelettes" are all trying to make a connection...and they are sending out random, crazy signals...

    The thing is: I was not pain-free for awhile after fusion and then developed the pain. The first day after surgery I developed the pain in the front of my thigh and it has never left.

    I was told the scarring is just the natural way the body heals-- that whenever anything is removed, the body lays down new tissue to fill in the "hole" -- that this is nothing to be concerned about. My surgeon had my films on the light box and we stood shoulder to shoulder looking at them --

    I agree about the spinal cord stimulator. I do not want one.
  • Wow Gwennie, I can't believe you don't take anything. That's amazing. How do you manage when you have to walk around or go somewhere? You're like me, walking increases my pain and so does standing, and of course sitting. I do experience pain while laying down but it's bearable; it does hurt worse when rolling over or side to side. Getting out of bed is a trial.

    I admit to using a cane all the time, even at home in fear of falling. I noticed that my balance is a bit off and wonder if it's related to the permanent nerve damage at right S1. There is also nerve pain on the left and the scar tissue is pressing on that nerve root and thecal sac. You have to be a rocket scientist to make sense of it all at times :?

    I wonder what scarring on the nerve looks like. I feel bad that you and Buckeye are having problems like these. It would be so cool if you got that appt with that California doctor.

    Buckeye I hope your doctor has an open mind and hears you out about your ideas. I'm all for being proactive in one's care. I'm sure it will go okay and maybe the doctor will be on the same page as you.

    Take it easy my friends :H
  • I started taking Lyrica again about a month ago. I was given it right after my fusion and took it for six months, then stopped.

    I think it is making my pain worse. But I am trying something different with my acupuncturist, so I don't know which is aggravating my pain.

    Thanks for letting us chat about our nerve problems on your thread. ;)

    Cheers !!

    xx Gwennie
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  • No problem :) Everyone has been so helpful and I have learned so much. I always appreciate your posts because they are so smart and informative; you really do your research too. I hope they find what's aggravating your pain soon. Take care
  • I saw my physiatrist today (injection guy) and explained to him that the last ESI only worked for two days and he told me that he can't give me another injection because I've had 3 in the last 12 months, not that he would anyway. He believes that I would benefit more by having exploratory surgery at the L4/L5 level to see if it is in fact scar tissue like the radiologist reported and if so, use of a laser to melt it away should fix the problem. The use of a laser is something I need to discuss with the surgeon since he wasn't sure if that would be a method he regularly uses or not. I also shared the PTX-Vit E case study with him and his thoughts were pretty positive about trying that to minimize any scar tissue development in the infant stages. I need to discuss that with the surgeon too and I will. My gut feeling is that either I bled after surgery sometime and that pooling of blood in the foramin promoted tha scarring or the scaring to the disk adhered to the nerve so that the disc movements yank on the nearby nerve. We'll see on June 8th when I have my appointment with the surgeon and hopefully schedule the procedure.

    MR Neurography is a diagnostic test I was very interested in too, but the imaging centers that I went to didn't offer that test and they really didn't know what I was talking about. That's Columbus Ohio for ya. LOL! My sister lives in California. It would be worth doing the test to visit. :)

    Gwennie, would the PTX-Vit E help your scarring even though it could be on the inside of the nerve sheath (neuroma)? Have you discussed that with your doc? Will you? Meydey, have you read that study? It sure looks worth a shot being so disabled by scar tissue.

    Honestly,...I would and AM taking the risk of dying to get my life back on the surgery table. If that wasn't an option, I would be taking the PTX and Vit E (already taking) because that study is so compelling.

    I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but it would make sense that the medical community would find a way to control scarring around sensitive structures some how considering fibrosis is a major cause of failed back surgery syndrome. Maybe they don't want to though. :? It will be another costly surgery for them to go back in and remove that "by product" of the initial surgery.

    Maybe I'm just losing it! 8}

  • This is so compelling! :) I really think it will well when you have this upcoming appt; and it's also good to know your surgeon is so open minded. Many will have a ego attack if you make suggestions ;) I am looking forward to hear how it goes.

    I read this study a few months ago and I also wondered if the PTX/Vitamin E works only in beginning stages of fibrosis formation. I had initially tried another ESI when this was found to reduce the pain and inflammation but it didn't work. It's true that you shouldn't have more than 3 ESI's a year, but some doctors go ahead and do more than that. I had 5 in one year- 3 preop and 2 post op in 2007.

    I understand you're trying anything to get your life back-we all want this but at the same time we must proceed with caution. I understand spinal surgeries come with risk and having a good surgeon increases the outcome for success. I know everything will go alright for you >:D<

  • I hope we all can find a solution to our pain or at least a way to manage it so that we're not laying down all the time. I hate that.

    The patients in the study had epidural fibrosis that developed for many years before starting the PTX-Vit E treatment and had excellent outcomes. It doesn't seem to matter how long the scar tissue was present. If my doc will let me,...I'm gonna try taking it for at least 4-6 months to head off the growth. That IS if scar tissue is my problem. I hope it is and not the disc that is the problem. My gut says it is scar tissue because it feels different than before, but I won't know for sure until after the surgery. If it is disk,...I'm gonna see if he will perform IDET while I'm out to seal the disc on the iside. Hell,..I'll pay for that portion out of my pocket if he'll do it. Worker's Comp may not pay for that.

    One thing is for sure, when my issues resolve, I'll come back to this board periodically because everyone here has been so kind and understanding and if I can help others, I will. :) I really appreciate all those who do.
  • Do you have any idea how much vit E was taken or the dosage of the other stuff? Did the patients all take the same dosage?

    My PM still is interested in working with me, although he has suggested a spinal chord stim. also. At least he isn't interested in trying any more injections or blocks. My upcoming appointment will be the first time he is "in charge" of my case. Before he was doing things my surgeons were suggesting. So it could be interesting.

    I just wish I knew what was causing my pain. Then I would have some idea how to proceed....
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