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When does it become enough?

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2

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  • Hi Ron, sorry to hear of your family friend's decision. I feel bad for his family.
  • Ron, sorry about your friend. As Alex said, it doesn't matter how close you were, it still hits hard.

    However Alex, the "mess" isn't necessarily the visible mess, it's the emotional mess that the families and friends, and anyone else who's lives were touched by the person have to suffer after. The unanswered questions, the loss, the anger... It's all just as messy.

    I love what Savage wrote:
    I also decided noone...and no pain... is going to have power over my destiny.
    What an awesome thought!

    I've known more than my share of people, friends and aquaintances, who have committed suicide (more than a couple of dozen). And with the Afghanistan mission, there's more all the time. It never gets easier. I'll never understand it, because as bad as I've been with the PTSD, as well as the pain, I could never. Life can sure suck some days, but it will never be that bad for me. One thing I've learned though, is that you can put 10 people in the same situation, and all 10 are going to come out of it differently. Things affect each and every one of us in a different way, be it the mental and emotional demons from our past and present or the beast, physical pain.

    A little plug for some psych therapies here. I was just at my Operational Stress Injury (OSI, which includes all psych diagnoses like PTSD, depression, anxiety disorders, in our cases due to operational deployments) support group tonight that I volunteer with. A lot of the guys do something called neuro-feedback. I've never tried it myself, if you want to know more about it, I suggest googling it, but most of them really like it. There have been some who didn't, but that goes with not everyone is the same. We have one guy who also was just deemed cancer free earlier this year, after a 2 year battle with it. He just started coming to the group last month, and started neuro-feedback around the same time. The difference in him is so obvious. He told us tonight that the psychologist asked him this week when the last time he thought about suicide was, and he said he surprised himself, because it's been a couple of weeks, where it was basically 24/7 before. He was singing the praises of neuro-feedback tonight, that this has basically saved his life.

    Another newer therapy is called Emotional Freedom Therapy. There is a group of mental health professionals that are working with vets, and have put out a video about it, if you google it, you will find it. It involves "tapping" the pressure points that are used with acupuncture, working with your body's natural energy. My psychologist is big into using this technique (again, I haven't tried it yet) but a friend of mine who also sees him did start doing it a couple of months ago, and loves it. He said that within 3 sessions, he was finally able to talk about the incidents that haunt him without breaking down and into a cold sweat and causing wicked anxiety attacks. Now, just because I mentioned vets, it's not exclusive to just us, it can be for everyone who suffers from depression, anxiety, anger issues, etc. The site also shows how it's done, and there are videos that talk you through the exercises, so you can do it at home by yourself. I haven't done it myself, as I am at a point that I don't really need it anymore, but after watching the videos (includes the actual sessions with people) and seeing the change in them, had I known about it even a year ago, I would have been all over it. The change in my buddy is amazing, too, he's come so far since he started it. He, along with a couple of the other guys, was at a funeral yesterday for a guy from our regiment who was killed last week. Buddy said he was seconds from getting up and leaving, because he was going to lose it, but decided to stay and work on one of the pressure points in his hand (he didn't tap, but pressed on the spot so he wasn't obvious about it). He said that within a couple of minutes, the anxiety attack completely subsided, and he was able to sit through the rest of the service. If I ever get back to that point, it will be one of the first things I try.

    Anyways, just thought I'd throw those two things out there, as it might help someone.
    Kelly
    APROUD CANADIANveteranButNOTa doctor, my thoughts are my own
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  • Oh that mess. I been reading with 1 eye and this is the 2nd post i missread then. Ok i got it. The family mess i can understand. I was thinking the other mess brenda mentioned which is small popatoes compaired to the emotional suffering person must of been going through finding no other way out. I guess i just feel more for the person that had no other way to resolve there suffering because i can put myself in his place and i know his family will suffer and not understand but we all have lost a loved one but our life always goes on and find a way to get through it.

    But once a person is dead. There is no more. And especialy if there was no chronic pain condition involved and the depression could of been treated makes it that much worse in some cases. Thats what i was refering to i guess.
    Flexicore ADR 2004 resulting nerve damage l4l5 Fusion 2006 same level, 2009 hardware removal with lami !
    2012 scs implant ,
  • Part of the 'mess' I was referring to is like my friend made. His wife (also a friend) was mentally destroyed for years over that sight, so NO it is not small potatoes as you put it. Yeah the person is dead, and no more pain that caused him to do it, but her pain can become just as severe, and it includes the final visual.

    So I will stand by the ways some end it, DO affect the living, some of which end up going out the same way. It's a bad deal all around. To one small potatoes, to others not.

    Brenda
    PCTF C4 - T2, Laminectomies C5, C6 & C7. Severe Palsy left arm/hand.
  • SavageSavage United StatesPosts: 7,385
    Thank you for the reminder of the "tapping" type therapies.
    I did go through that with a therapist when I was in despair about my divorce...about 15 years ago.

    Sometimes I notice the tapping I will be doing to.. well my forehead mostly..and I think it's so cool that my body..or something in me..remembered and was trying to take care of me! :)

    Now I feel motivated to look into it again as it did help me with my anger and depression at that time.
    Results were noticed very quickly in my case...so yay..another tool to keep on keeping on!
    Thanks
    Sue
    Honorary Spine-Health Moderator
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Please read my medical history at: Medical History

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  • Savage, I'm so glad that you saw the post then! Everything happens for a reason, I went to the meeting, my buddy talked about tapping, I wrote about it here, and it reminded you of how it helped you before. Weird how things happen like that. Good luck, and I hope you have success with it again!
    Kelly
    APROUD CANADIANveteranButNOTa doctor, my thoughts are my own
  • I already said i agree about the emotional aspect of it having to see it and all that. Its obvious i am talking about the mess itself if a person ate there gun as you put it. Unless he used a shot gun or something i guess would be a mess and not a prety sight. And the visual would of had a much worse affect if he did it in front of her.

    So i am sure in his mind he was avoiding that making sure she is not there. Either way these are of course sad situations and i am not underminding her reaction and emotions about the mater. I was just simply refering to the mess that has to be cleaned up after something like that which i would hope she would of called in some outside people for such thing. So that my reasoning for calling the mess small potatoes for its after the fact of a suicide and its a clean up as it would be with any crime scene.

    Its not that i am trying to be cold hearted by any means for i feel the emotional hurt of course is a very serious one so dont missunderstand. I just cant blame him for making a mess for i am sure was the last thing on his mind being in that state of mind.

    If it was me that did it. I am sure Sandra would probably be bitching oh great! Not bad enough i have to pick up his socks and underwear every day. Even when he leaves earth i still have to clean up after him that bumm!
    Flexicore ADR 2004 resulting nerve damage l4l5 Fusion 2006 same level, 2009 hardware removal with lami !
    2012 scs implant ,
  • Yeah, she of course didn't do the clean up. I may have just not expressed myself correctly in so far as the mess's impact on the living.

    I too was meaning the emotional mess aspect of those that leave us by their actions. I guess to for me, having come this >< close to doing it myself as a teen, I gave a lot of thought as to what the messy mental effects would have been.

    That poor truck driver that I involved by jumping under his truck. The friends that did care for me, and too family etc. Aside from my very observant friend who wouldn't let me walk home alone, "thinking" after what affects I would have induced helped keep me turned around.

    What you said about your wife, hehehe,... the same could have been said by me if my hubby did that! (G)

    Brenda
    PCTF C4 - T2, Laminectomies C5, C6 & C7. Severe Palsy left arm/hand.
  • The constant pain, sleep deprivation, not eating and constant trips to the doc and being told there is nothing we can do for months puts you into that long dark tunnel and the light just went out. An admittance to the hospital and a few days of hydromorphone turned the light back on. I now know there is a light and there is a treatment "when" the pain gets out of control again. A previous post was right it is a long process and many like myself look for anything to prevent it, it's when you don't find it that it becomes a possibilty.

    My condolenses for your loss.

    The above is my opion only nothing more nothing less
  • SavageSavage United StatesPosts: 7,385
    ...writing. Your words really touched me. And I am very sorry about the your father.

    Thank you for sharing your experience. Again, your words are very moving.
    Sue
    Honorary Spine-Health Moderator
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Please read my medical history at: Medical History

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