Personal opinion here ... I would never fight to have surgery, as it can be the opening of Pandora's Box and the beginning of the end. I personally fight to avoid surgery!

The epidurals given to aid in child birth versus the epidurals given to fight back pain are totally different. Please discuss this with your consultant.

Welcome to Spine Health

"C"

I understand your frustration. I'm 30, have a 3 yr old and a 1 yr old. I have been living with the pain for 7 years now and since getting insurance the beginning of the year, have helped myself to all the doctors I can get my hands on. My condition is inoperable, as they will not fuse 4 discs together, but I have to say, I'm kind of relieved!! The more I read on here, the more I see just how many of these surgeries end in Failed Back Syndrome. It's pretty frightening. I would go see your pain doctor, get your meds adjusted. Talk to them. Tell them EVERYTHING you told us. They will work with you. See what happens with the injections. I can tell you that when the doc first thought I only had 2 discs (x-ray, before MRI), he said that he wanted to try these other methods BEFORE jumping in to surgery. If they can make you better without cutting you open, wouldn't you rather have that? Give them a chance and if you don't find relief, the option is still there.

Good Luck@
JEn

i agree with the others that surgery is a last resort.

reading your post, however, took me back many years because it started for me the same way as you. yupper, i'd get one episode, then two, then three, et cetera. after about 6 years of this amidst one of my episodes everything just went to heck in a handbasket ... my disk extruded and i had to get it removed surgically. i was holding off on surgery until there was really no alternative (i.e., was bed ridden). your back really does change once you've had surgery. i'd say that if a surgeon thinks it's a good thing for you then ask lots of questions and seriously think about it, but i wouldn't ask a surgeon to do the surgery. i think a lot of doctors (and nurses) don't like it when other people tell them what to do. the same goes with drugs, this has nothing to do with your post but it peeves me off when patients say "i NEED stronger drugs " .... blah blah blah instead of telling the doc what the situation is with the meds and then asking him/her how you and he/sheshould address the issue. anyway, like i said, this has nothing to do specifically with your post.

incidentally, i have had 4 major surgeries to date, my last one being a multi-level lumbar fusion with instrumentation L4-L5-S1. i think it's just interesting how you sound so much like i did way back when i was in graduate school.

I am a 41yr old woman who has had 5 children. I have DDD and Scolosis. I hurt on a daily basis. I can't sit too long, stand too long, walk long distances, and it even hurts to sleep in a bed for too long. I can't find a MD that is willing to do anything for my pain. They give me muscle relaxers, and sleep medicine but say if i loose weight and exercise i will feel better. I am not that over weight, maybe 20lbs, but how do you work out and exercise if you hurt constantly. I have tried the injections and yes they work for the moment, but dont last long.
I know how you feel, i feel the same way. I don't want a MD to think I am a drug abuser but i honestly need to know what to do. I recently moved from NC to GA and I feel that might be the worst thing I could have done. Atleast in NC, the MD believed me. I mean x-rays and MRI's don't lie. I wake up in the mornings with numb legs, swollen feet and a pain in my mid to lower back that goes across my right buttock and down my legs.
If you have any advice for me please let me know.

Sounds like we all feel the same feelings at the beginning, I have explained to my doctor fully the effect of this problem on my life particularly have 3 young children & a husband who works away quite a bit. I have alsO been for physical therapy with no avail . I just feel at my wits end & don't know what to do x

Ash76,

Injections do more than mask, in some instances they can help the inflammationa and actually allow nerve to heal. I never had level of stabbing pain I had prior to 3rd ESI.

Hi! It seems I am in the same boat you are. I also have 5 kids (9,8,5, and 18 month old twins)that have a hard time understanding why Mommy is in so much pain. I can't carry the twins (one at a time only) for more than 10-15 feet without paying for it.

I have experienced chronic pain in my neck and shoulder periodically since high school with the flare-ups becoming more frequent every year until last year in July or August the latest flare-up started that has only gotten worse.

I have been to several doctors in the last months attempting to be treated for chronic cervical back pain that started in high school. I am 32 years old now with a prior history (before my cervical problems) of chronic lumbar pain/ cauda equina syndrome/leaking spinal fluid/microdiscectomy at the L4/L5 level.

It took my neurologist 2 referrals to get an MRI approval from my insurance after 4 months of "conservative" treatment. Below are the results.

Overall Impression: Multilevel (C2/C3-C7/T1) degenerative changes, most significant at C6/7 where an extrusion abuts spinal cord. Abutment of exiting nerve roots and severe stenosis of spinal canal and neural formaina. Large osteophyte complex. Spinal deformity.

Despite seeing my PCP at least 5 times for this problem as well as a neurologist about 3 times plus a neurosurgeon and physical therapy, I am no closer to a treatment or even pain management. My insurance would not approve the recommended surgery, they conferred with my neurosurgeon who then recommended a trial period of injections. Then my insurance dropped my coverage.

So now I have new insurance and I have another appointment in 2 weeks with a new doctor in Seattle, this time with a Orthopedic Surgeon that was recommended to me by my professor. I hope this doctor actually listens to me instead of my insurance company and will base my treatment on my symptoms and not what my insurance says has to be done. We will see.

What I do know is that I can't handle any of this anymore, the pain, numbness, and shaking severely impacts my quality of life. I have constant numbness in my right arm and leg and intermittent numbness on the left side. Plus all the various aches, pains, the burning sensations. Limited ROM in my neck and right arm. Constant tremors. And I can even hear my blood running in my veins or my heart beating or ringing in my ear, depending on whichever nerve is being compressed at the moment. It enough to drive one batty.

Its just hard to breathe sometimes. Literally and figuratively.

Please let me know what happens, if the injections work. I have had injections in my lumbar region but they did not work. Anybody know if they will work in the cervical region if they did not work in the lumbar region?

hi, been to see the consultant although must admit seemed more like a junior !!! They have confirmed I have degenerative disc disease in two discs not just one ! they say i have denenerative disc disease in L4/L5 & L5/S1... but the nerve pain/loss of feeling & tingling & numbness & weakness I have in my leg they are saying is not connected to my disc disease. as mri doesnt show a pinched nerve via the diseased disc as expected. so now they cant treat my disc disease untill they know where the nerve pain is coming from & are referring to me to a nerve specialist cant remember what he called it. he said my symptoms dont tally with my mri & had to leave the room to ask someone else. So meanwhile im in agony & they cant/ wont do anything. & ive now got to wait god knows how long till i get that appointment through !!! And Im in totally agony after being examined yet again . They are now more concerned about where neve pain is coming from. They said they cant treat the disc pain untill they find where the nerve is trapped,as it could make things worse. Im so fed up. just dont know what to do xx

.

hi, been to see the consultant although must admit seemed more like a junior !!! They have confirmed I have degenerative disc disease in two discs not just one ! they say i have denenerative disc disease in L4/L5 & L5/S1... but the nerve pain/loss of feeling & tingling & numbness & weakness I have in my leg they are saying is not connected to my disc disease. as mri doesnt show a pinched nerve via the diseased disc as expected. so now they cant treat my disc disease untill they know where the nerve pain is coming from & are referring to me to a nerve specialist cant remember what he called it. he said my symptoms dont tally with my mri & had to leave the room to ask someone else. So meanwhile im in agony & they cant/ wont do anything. & ive now got to wait god knows how long till i get that appointment through !!! And Im in totally agony after being examined yet again . They are now more concerned about where neve pain is coming from. They said they cant treat the disc pain untill they find where the nerve is trapped,as it could make things worse. Im so fed up. just dont know what to do xx

.

Emg is probably the test you were refering to,To test the nerve,

I had similar issues for close to 20 years. Discogram was the only thing that confirmed my l4l5 disc being bad and leaking,

Ddd alone not always cause pain for many people and simply comes with age,

Injection will always be the best way to start along with pt and see if it can be managed,

It can be painfull to deal with but i would turn the clock back if i could and deal with the bad disc then to deal with what surgery has done to me after removing my disc and sticking an artificial disc in there with nerve damage,

If you do have a disc thats bad and causing pain, They can recreate that pain with discogram to find it, And once they do you may get your wish,

Because in most cases once disc is the pain generator and its not because disc is bulging, You get 2 options,

1 remove disc and fusion,
2 artificial disc replacement,

Both have risk to cause further complications,

Any time you change the structure of the spine you dont know what else will start to give,

Best of luck,

Ps. 1 more thing if i may, When disc leaks it dont always show up on mri as this was my case, So when they cant see nerve pinched off by anything the stuff that leaks out of the disc can leak on to the nerve and can explain the symptoms even when mri dont show it,

Its like a chemical reaction of acid leaking on the nerve and symptoms can be similar to piched nerve,

When it stays on the nerve too long it can attach itself to the nerve almost like it fuses itself to the nerve,

When that hapens as this was the posibility i was told could of hapened with me, while removing it off the nerve can cause nerve damage,

But nobody can confirm 100% what cause the nerve damage after surgery,

Hope this helps, Best wishes,

hi alex, thanks for your comments. What is an EMG ? and how do they do it ? As ive not heard of them.I know the ddd doesnt necessarly mean the pain is from there as i know some people dont suffer at all with pain from the disc. But i do have terrible pain in my back as well as limited movement. Also the nerve pain & additional rouble from this seem to be just as much of a problem. Ive had the pt which didnt work also the array of drugs im on only just take the edge of it.Unlike my 1st post im far more educated than then lol(although still reading up on it all) I was just so desperate at the time of 1st post.
no-body has mentioned anything about either of the disks leaking. when i had the mri they did do cross cut sections too which showed the disc to have a nice clear outline circular shape. And it didnt look like the circumfrance was broken anywhere where they could be a leak as i know they do for anular tears aswell.
This is just so debilitating not being able to do the basic's in life .

Thanks for sharing your story without sites like this we would be really stuck & this site is brill x

Emg is like shock thearapy testing. Needles will be placed in your legs and electric shock will be read by there program and will tell them if the nerve has signal that shows maybe pinched nerve,

Its a litle painfull but very short time,

I agree with you needing an EMG/nerve test and your GP Dr. should be sending you to a Neurologist for this test in any case of numbness and tingling in your leg(s).

I've had pain for 4 years from DDD and bulging herniated discs and on disability and been to several Orthopedic Surgeon appointments and Neurosurgeon and they still say I'm not a candidate for surgery.

Get a good Pain Management Dr. referral also to help you manage. A Physiatrist can also help diagnose and order any other tests like flexion/extension x-rays to check for spine stability and see if Physiotherapy or aquatherapy with a PT will help. I hope you get these tests and find a good Dr. to help you. Take care. Charry

hi, thanks for reply. yeah the nerve pain is awfull particulairly in my bum cheek. Also the the numbness is from the knee down and very very bad (totaly numb) at times in my foot. Im still in very bad pain in my back due to the ddd in my L4/l5 & L5/S1. which they are refussing to treat untill to source of my nerve has been found. They were expecting the nerve to be pinched by the vertabra's due to the ddd. but my mri has shown the nerve to be free flowing where i have ddd.i deffo need some different test doing. just all the waiting inbetween.

Ash,
Tony here mentioned some time ago that pain relief if any comes as a secondary benefit of surgery rather than the initial objective and that was a good point. I like the idea that others mentioned your condition as mild when the pain is excruciating, that positive attitude will help you in the future. Living a chronic pain life is not easy, I had to stop working at 37 initially, and having surgery is a personal decision only you know what the pain feels like to you.

You have not offended anyone, we express our views based on our own experience, many alternative options are available, and we all wanted the pain just to stop.

Have you told your husband you are at your “wits end ” ? who helps and supports you to do the things you need.

I had three young children at the time of my fusion, so take care and good luck.

John

hi john thanks for your post. yeah we all just want the chronic pain to stop,but its not that simple is it unfortunatley. Unless we can directly cure the basis of the pain then unfortunatley we somehow have to 'Manage'. I have already tried tried lots of different things. I do find not bein able to do or strugglin to do basic tasks just as much a problem. Even if i could physically do stuff but with pain at least I would still do them even if in pain ! I have read up so much since my 1st post lol & unless reccomended surgery would be my last resport now as from what I can see it potentially cause's more harm than good. Im just frustrated at the min as ive been diagnosed with the ddd which they agree is why im suffering my back pain & very restricted movement. it is treatable prefably trying the cortizone injection 1st but they are refusssing to do this untill they find where my nerve is trapped as they seem more concerned about my loss of feeling & pain etc in my leg/foot. I understand they cant even give me an injection at this point as it could do more harm than good. but the pain and dehabiliting lack of movement is terrible luckily i do have a very supporting husband & he fully understands how i feel emotionaly & can see how i struggle with the pain & not being able to move. He unfortunatly has been working away quite a bit of late(terrible timing) but 100% helps in anyway he can when he is here. As you well know having 3 children & all these troubles is extrmley difficult. It certainly makes you put things into perspective (when your not away with the fairys on pain killers). Reading everyone else stories is brill as we can all learn from each other & maybe see things from a different view.

Thanks again for everyone taking the time to post x

Ash, by now, I think you know that everyone would tell you that the surgical route is one of your last options. There are so many conservative treatments that can be done to provide you with some relief.

Based on everything you have posted, and your doctor(s) action, surgery is not on the table at this point. Degenerative Disc Disease Learn about Degenerative Disk Disease has always been one of the most misunderstood spinal condition.

Effectively, it is just the aging of our spine. Almost everyone by the time they reach 30 will show some signs of DDD. Even as the condition advances most situations can be managed with an approved exercise program and Over the counter NSAIDs.

I am not questioning your pain levels or how you are feeling. However, from a medical view point, IF the diagnostic tests do not indicate a moderate or severed situation and any clinical examination backs that up, the doctor(s) are not going to write prescriptions for stronger pain medications. If anything, they will recommend other conservative treatments.

Ash,
It sounds like you have two problems the pinched nerve and DDD which as yet are being treated as two separate issues; you mention them as one problem and as yet have no diagnosis or evidence that supports that suggestion. It may well be that time may link them in the future and you have to deal with what you have now, rather than what it might be. Ron’s advice was good in that without surgery which you say you do not want or has been offered, conservative treatments are your best option until diagnostic evidence suggests otherwise.

Many here have unexplained pain and limited evidence and still all the pain symptoms, the only option for pain at this stage is to manage it more effectively and if what you are doing or have done is not working then many more things are possible.

5 years is a long time to have these symptoms, the best known management is a “simultaneous range of treatments used together ” they are suggested to be more effective when used all at the same time than individually, the people here have been where you are now, you need to be open to ideas and change itself, you do mention trying some other treatments, can you tell us what they will be and what you expect to happen. If we all just wait for the doctor to find our solution we are not doing all that we could to help ourselves.

Take care and tell us what your next step is, we do understand, I have had chronic pain for 22 years, with titanium rods and a fusion. Ron has had pain for 30 years perhaps, that’s 50 years of experience.

John

I have now been diagnosed with Spondylolisthesis L4/L5, also have fracture of pars joint, also now have a herniated disc which goes up into the space were the vertabrea has slipped. Also my ddd has become much worse. Most days i am unable to get out of be & struggle terrible when I do. I have had all the pills avail non steriod, anti-inflamitory, nerve tables, pain killers, physical threapy, cortisone injection (done by live x-ray in theatre)My surgeon seem to think after a recent xray & yet another mri booked its looking like im going to need surgery