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Opiate Abuse...

AnonymousUserAAnonymousUser Posts: 49,671
edited 06/11/2012 - 8:44 AM in Back Surgery and Neck Surgery
is it just me, or does this really upset anyone else?

my doctor does pee test a few times a year, and you will always have guys asking to "reschedule" or just flat out fail. I am not sure about you, but it just makes me wanna throw them out the door on their ass.

Because of this congress and senate has been talking to ban doctors from being allow to prescribe opiates for pain patients. what are they gonna give us, TRAMADOL? blahhhhhhhhhhhhh

sorry, just didn't know if this bothered anyone else as much as me. I hate to see thoose of us with LEGITIMATE back problems loose out, because the weak minded or drugies screw it up for all of us.

I love it when people tell me "I don't understand".. OHHH TRUST ME I DO. before my surgery my dose had gotten to incredible portions due to how quickly my body adapted to each new level and my size. I am 7 weeks out from surgery and not only going thru recovery, but also a slow controlled withdrawl. If I can do it during recovery from surgery, anyone can do it when they are not recovering.

sorry had to vent.


  • MetalneckMetalneck Island of Misfit toysPosts: 1,364
    Tramadol is an opiate.

    Good luck with your recovery and controlled withdrawl.


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  • I did not know they considered tramadol as a opiate, since its on the non narcotic list. stuff never worked much for me, for relieving severe pain.

    it is my understanding that its not molecularly structured as an opiate, so technicnally no its not one. Its an analgesic, but it binds to your opiod receptors, and acts as an opiate

  • MetalneckMetalneck Island of Misfit toysPosts: 1,364
    "Tramadol is a synthetic analog of the phenanthrene alkaloid codeine and, as such, is an opioid and also a prodrug (codeine is metabolized to morphine, tramadol is converted to M-1 aka O-desmethyltramadol). Opioids are chemical compounds which act upon one or more of the human opiate receptors (the euphoria, addictive nature and respiratory depression are mainly caused by the Mu(μ) 1 and 2 receptor. The opioid agonistic effect of tramadol and its major metabolite(s) are almost exclusively mediated by the substance's action at the μ-opioid receptor"

    Gotta love Google,

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  • But isn't this just confirming my point. its not metabolized as a opiate, but does act on the opiate receptors??

    a Synthetic analog is a synthetically created compound that differs from the Natural compound
    Both in it's structure and function. even though it may act on the same receptor.

    the battle of the minds. LOL. we will get to the bottom of this
  • Tramadol is not quite an opiate, and not quite not an opiate. You're both right. Now stop arguing. LOL!

    It definitely is not an analgesic on the level of oxycodone, nor is it habit forming on that level, which was the point mavrick was trying to make (which is why it's not a controlled substance).

    And yes, that pisses me off too, even though I have never had surgery, I need access to these meds for valid reasons.
  • MetalneckMetalneck Island of Misfit toysPosts: 1,364
    "Tramadol (sold in the U.S. as Ultram, in Canada as Zydol, and in the U.S. in combination with Tylenol/acetaminophen as Ultracet) actually is not a narcotic in and of itself. Tramadol is a opiate agonist and a central nervous system agent. This means that it acts on the same areas of the body (the same cellular receptors) as opiates (such as morphine and codiene, which are narcotics). As a result, tramadol has some of the same affects as morphine (such as pain reduction), but is less sedating and is less likely to slow your breathing and your bowels as morphine would. Because of its ability to reduce pain in a manner similar to narcotics, tramadol is also classified as a narcotic analgesic. Although has recently been shown to have the potential to be addictive, unlike narcotics it is not scheduled as a controlled substance by the U.S. FDA."

    All I know is that I was on it over 5 years ago and It was about as effective as baby asprin (for me).

    The above says its NOT an opiate. I hate when you get different answers from different sources. Life is confusing enough!! Now we have multiple outlets for confusing - conflicting information - Thats why we should ask and counsel our beloved doctors as they carry malpractice insurance ... I don't ... heck I don't even have health insurance ... but I have car insurance!! Go figure!

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  • Ya.. they screw it up for the rest of us. I took all my pee tests, passed them all, my "buddy" always lit, always dosed, couldnt pass a pee test, but along with a intellectually dishonest PM doc could get meds... WC stinks, a weed smoking, alcoholic known drug abuser, can get meds, while a rule follower gets the shaft.
    I dont have sympathy for drug ABUSERS, not users.

    We utilize powerful narcotic and potentially addictive drugs.
    Its a fact, to get relief, some have to take opiates, and other drugs, We, the responsible, utilize these "tools" to try to be normal as possible under the circumstances.

    The druggy has no such qualms, its about them, the selfish, self centered and destructive behavior all to try to fix whatever is broken, whether or not if anything is broken .

    The media and the uninformed paint with broad dirty strokes.
    and sadly too many uniformed people listen and make bad decisions based on biased and faulty logic.

    informing the masses and people in power will be important I think.
    have a great one
    William Garza
    Spine-Health Mod

    Welcome to Spine-Health

  • This is a good topic and a conversation I just had about 2 hours ago with my sister. She is very concerned about the medications I take. I explained (and emailed) information about chronic pain and narcotic pain medications. Especially that chronic pain sufferers do not get the same "high" drug abusers get from these meds. I assured her I only use them as prescribed and feel that worst case scenario is having to do weening or controlled withdrawl when changing or stopping some of my medications.

    If I was looking to get "high" there are easier ways than monthly drug tests and pill counts to acheive a buzz!! And I would gladly swap that for this crap!!

    Traci :)
  • that those of us will never understand if we are not addicts. Personally, I have no idea why druggies love pain pills. I took them, and plenty of them, when I really needed them. Even now, if I totally over-do and am in pain, I'll take one -- ONE, maybe once every two weeks or every month if I've over-done it. They relieve the pain. They don't make me feel zoned out, high, happy, blissful, whatever. For addicts, they cause some sort of euphoria that we will never understand. I guess it's like being an alcoholic. If alcohol does that something special to you, then you can't get enough. I enjoy an occasional glass of wine, but frankly, if I have more than one or two, I get a headache, and I'd rather pass.

    All depends on your genetic makeup I guess. I've signed a DEA statement with my doc that says I won't doctor shop, won't get my pain meds from anyone but him, won't fill my prescriptions at more than one pharmacy. So far, I've had no problems.

    3 level spinal fusion, L3/4, L4/5, L5/S1, November 2008. Stiff, but I can walk.
  • I've never heard of a doc calling for pee tests. That probably wouldn't sit very well with me even if I was going to come up clean. Can you change docs or are you stuck?

    The simple fact is I need these stupid meds to make it through my day. If I wasn't able to take them I'd probably be curled up into a ball in the corner crying. I am careful to stay in check and take what is prescribed, I try to have good communication with my husband so he know's where I'm at. Do I think about addiction hell yes but at some point I hope I'm feeling well enough to wean myself off of them!!
  • Tramadol stinks, sorry it does, no offense. Advil works just as good. I get what you mean though, going thru my back surgery and when before and the middle and the end and now the way the doctors treat you is different. When you notice the pain is not getting better, you just want the pain to go away. Your not getting high, its just so the pain is less. Pain Relief. My pain is finally getting better from my fusion, but I have had to take a 10 /325 Lortab to get thru the day at work, because I felt like I was going to jump out of my skin sitting at a computer for hours, because the pain was hurting so bad.

    People that abuse drugs don't get that. I have a friend thats has chronic pain from nerve damage and he takes like 300MG of Morphine extended release a day, but he said it makes him get thru his day, but he barely notices it now because he has gotten use to it. but he said if someone that didn't take pain killers, took what he took it would kill them. When you have pain especially long term you really appreicate how the drugs work and can give you relief and it pizzes you off when you hear about kids making it 10 times harder for you to see your doctor because they want to get high. If they had pain like we had for a week they would never want to take drugs like that again. To see what these drugs were MADE FOR.
  • and feels different. What works for you may not for me. I am 2 years post-op next week and I still take vicoden EVERY day. When my feet hit the floor in the morning(by the grace of GOD)I take half of a 10/660 to get moving correctly. My family DR. is great when it comes to my care. My left arm nerve damage is much better(90%) but now I get these migraine headaches up my neck and into my temples. Going to get a scan next week to check it out. If you need pain meds they should be available to you. Everyone is different with different conditions. Good luck to all.
  • WOW WOW WOW I never had to do a pee test that is invading my personal life. My Dr. gives me what I need if i did not need it i would not take it. I would love to get off all of it and that would make me feel like all my isses with my back lower my neck and shoulder are all better. If i do not take these meds i will be in the ER hospital have a $250 copay and that would get old fast. I have missed more than enough wk and all im doing is trying to cope with all the problems wrong with my body. Anyone who can make you pee in a cup well i would say hey you pee in the cup they probally will be on something not legal. IT is the idiots that are hooked on these drugs that make it bad for us that really need it. Ok that is my 5cents worth.
  • I am going in on june 21st for a anterior lumbar fusion at L5/S1. and just had my pre ops with the nero's pa and the general surgon.

    I have been seeing a PM doc & my GP has been handeling my meds (hes great) my brother has been my medical advacate for all of this and compleatlyunderstands whats going on. well he just had a bad actsident with a thble saw & nearly lost his right arm."he is no recovering well" so these pre op appointments I had my yonger sister come with.

    she said to the doctors that Im on way to many pain meds and the goal here is to get me off them, I jjust about slaped the crap out of her.

    I tryed to explain to her that the pain meds are for pain & I dont get any uforic feeling for them. she refused to beleive me. O-well

    I just wont ask her to do somthing like this again.

    I geuss my point is that just like those of us that will never understand what addiction is like. there are also those that will never understand what this type of pain is like.

    I just have to add a comment that she said to me.
    she said dont tell me I dont understand what pain is, I have given birth.
    I replide back, but you didnt do it day and nite for a year. she still didnt udertand.

    it all boils down to people have abuseed these meds and ruimed it for us people that need them..

    sorry for my logn post.
  • I think we all realize that we do what it takes to make life bearable. I'm a little surprised at the upset over urine analysis. If you are doing what you say you are doing what is the problem? It's for your own safety.
  • Hi metal neck,

    Just thought Id share, in NZ we have similar probs with pain relief meds and I am allergic to NSAID's so opiates and synthetics are my only option, (as well as the fact that my surgeon doesnt like the anti inflamitorys for the healing factor after a PLIF as Ive just had) back to my piont lol, Tramadol is not actually a true opiate, as it is synthetic, though it does work in much the same way as the likes of codine and others. But thats not the piont, what it sounds like is similar to here in NZ we have the government trying to stop or at least make it so hard for the drs and paitents to prescribe and then get from the chemists when it comes to the true opiates that they stick to Tramadol because it is not a true opiate and there fore is said to have less adictive qualities while giving the analgesic affects for the use in pain relief so on and so on but for the same reasons as government like it is the why patients often dont, and that is the fact that its just not as good (by it self) as the others.

    BUT like was said WE (the genuine people) get punished or caught up in the fight due to those who abuse the meds that DO help us. Then after the policy is in place to stop the abusers we are left with the crappy substitute, or at least looked at like abusers (as I have been - even 2 days post op being told I was using the morphine pump so I was an abuser) I think that was the idea that was being put across anyway :-)

    At the end of the day like everyone else here Im not a doctor, but I do fully try to make myself aware of the relevent info on what I put into myself for all the same reasons as everyone else, and the above is just what Ive come across in my battles with my situation etc. Hope it might have helped :-) KB
  • We have all the same issues but the kicker here is that it seems that you get conflicting info from the same scource ALOT, like I said before I had MY surgeon and anesthatist hook me up to all the pumps and drugs post op BUT then when I used them they told me I was BAD and OVER USING what they'd told me to use,

    ie, (The Drs tell me) when the pain gets bad press the button, you have to press the button, if your in pain thats NOT GOOD FOR YOUR RECOVER it needs to be under controll so press the morphine pump button.

    Then they tell me Im HOOKED on it, in 1 day Im hooked LOL!

    So then I tell them "take it all away I dont want it, need it or not I dont want it, and you just give me what pills YOU think I need, and I'll ask for nothing" and they didnt like that and got mad cause "I" let my pain get out of controll, and told me I dont need to be a marter LOL.

    So yeah you can even get the whole info conflict from the same source here in NZ, I really thing alot of the time its a power thing and they get ahead of them selves forgetting what they said or thought 2 mins ago!
  • and we were discussing this topic. He said something about a data base now that helps with identifying drug abusers that docs and pharmacists have access to. He said a guy came into the office complaining of severe stomach pain and was given a script (didn't say what med) and was called by the pharmacy where this guy tried to get it filled. The pharmacist said it looked like the amount had been changed.....indeed it was for twice the amount the doc had written it for. This guy went as far as agreeing to set up a cat scan, blood workup etc. just to get a script.
  • now that is gutsy to say the least. what a idiot!
    i bet thats a garentied way to get a free ride to jail if not it should be. and almost surtenly a good way to get beat-up by the legit pain sufferer standing behind him in line."me" if its before my surgery.
  • I have no problem doing a drug test. If you ever have to see a Pain Managment Specialist, you will almost certainly have to sign a contract and agree to submit to regular testing. It is so common there is a sample contract on this site. Here's a link: http://www.spine-health.com/forum/pain-management/pain-medicine-contract
  • You're back! :D
    Is this your first post since your surgery?
    It is the first one I've seen (I think)

    How did it all go, and how are you doing?
    Great to have you back again :-)
  • Requirements for prescribing meds are set by states, I think. Here it's pretty common to have to have occasional screens at some offices.

    Clearly Michael Jackson never had one.

    As for whether a particular drug, like Tramadol, "sucks"- it depends on the individual. Each person will react differently depending on their individual make-up. When my pain is in the 3-5 range, tramadol works as well as vicodin.

    I guess I do understand why people want the high. I mean, I went to the hospital and got the shot of dilaudid- that's some good stuff. If I didn't have a real life that's better than that, maybe I'd want to escape. At that moment, I hurt bad enough to want it. I am glad for meds that let me take just enough to ease the pain, but be here for my life. People who are addicts don't get to do that. They miss out.
  • Just like you said, tramadol, reacts to people differently, on me it didn't do that well. Why also I have taken Lortab, which works well, but I have taken Oxycontin and it makes me too loopy and downright mean. I'm sorry if I said a blanket statement about Tramadol, it really does depend on the patient and their pain. Some things work better for other people.

  • Interesting stuff , today is 3 months since my TLIF with cage and fusion at L5/S1....The last narcotic I took was over 30 days ago....Here is the kicker , I am a RECOVERED alcoholic/addict for 5 years now...Now , at the beginning I was in alot of pain , alot...!!!!...Not once did ever think I could get high ..I knew in the back of mind , if I didn't watch it later on , I could be in trouble....My Dr,s know that I used to drink AND drug....I trust them , and they trust me....I had to ask myself at one point , how much is my brain telling me I am hurting , and how much is it really....!!! So when I stopped taking them pills....Guess what , no more pain , sure I get it alittle after PT....But I remember the pain in the hospital and when I first got home....I am pro-active in every aspect of my surgery , this had paid dividends .....I am sorry for people that still hurt , as long as you know your own truth , a competent Dr. will also..
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