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Do you get your sacroiliac joint adjusted?

crashdummieccrashdummie Posts: 38
edited 06/11/2012 - 7:45 AM in Lower Back Pain
is there anyone here that gets their SI joint adjusted? If so, how does your chiro or therapist do it? I'm told I have a rotated right ilium. I can't seem to find anyone who can properly realign my SI joints. All the chiro's I see want to do that classic SI manipulation, where they pop you on your side with you like a pretzel. I think this is more harm then good to an already stretched, misaligned joint.

I'm hoping to secure my SI joint by having someone properly adjust it and then hit the long and short SI ligs with prolotherapy. Anyone dealign with this kind of stuff?

Thanks
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Comments

  • Yes me. If your ligaments are stretched then your ligaments will not keep your SI joint in place.
    It's not worth looking for a Chiro or anyone else to get the SI right, just get the Prolo done and your ligaments will strengthen and hold your SI in place.

    I went through this and learned the hard way with 10+ years of getting adjusted. The SI would usually stay in place for a while and then go out and I would need another trip to the Chiro. Huge waste of time and money.

    Find a Prolo Doc who will give you about 50 injections (not including the numbing shots) and who has done prolo on backs many times.
    Don't get a Doc who only does a few shots, it's not enough.

    I had my third Prolo procedure done Friday. My SI joint felt like it was greased up after the first prolo session. My lumbar is solid, no more pops and noises out of it. My leg pain decreased greatly too.

    Let us know how you do. If you need more info post back.

  • I dont get it adjusted, I actually have injections into the joints via epidural catheter and then the nerve endings burnt.
    It relieves the pain anywhere from 3 to 9 months..
  • Ozone,

    Your results sound fantastic, alot better then most i think. I think the thing with prolotherapy is, it works for some and not others, although this is information I've read off forums. Don't you wish you would have skipped all the wasted years and maybe you'd be at 100% now instead of 70% or better now? I wonder if all those chiro manipulations made your SI more unstable?

    According to (name removed), a SI joint specialist, those chiro SI manipulations are death to an anteriorly rotated pelvis. Have you heard of (name removed) before?

    I see my prolotherapy doctor tomorrow, an actual MD not ND. It took 2 months to get in with him, his experience with prolotherapy is exellent. What kind of questions should I ask him tomorrow? If you could tell me that one Ozone I'd greatly be appreciative. Because I know there are different solutions of prolo.

    Yea, I get the little pops out of the SI area, when standing up or sitting down, expecially when I would squeeze my glute muscles. I think if everyone listened and did exactly what chiro's told them, then the world would be full of hurt, poor people:()

    Name of medical professional removed. Please contact member via PM for name or information pertaining to this professional Post edited by Moderator haglandc
  • That sounds pretty good shelly, are you happy with that? Did you ever try prolotherapy?
  • crashdummie said:
    Ozone,

    Your results sound fantastic, alot better then most i think. I think the thing with prolotherapy is, it works for some and not others, although this is information I've read off forums. Don't you wish you would have skipped all the wasted years and maybe you'd be at 100% now instead of 70% or better now? I wonder if all those chiro manipulations made your SI more unstable?

    According to (name removed), a SI joint specialist, those chiro SI manipulations are death to an anteriorly rotated pelvis. Have you heard of (name removed) before?

    I see my prolotherapy doctor tomorrow, an actual MD not ND. It took 2 months to get in with him, his experience with prolotherapy is exellent. What kind of questions should I ask him tomorrow? If you could tell me that one Ozone I'd greatly be appreciative. Because I know there are different solutions of prolo.

    Yea, I get the little pops out of the SI area, when standing up or sitting down, expecially when I would squeeze my glute muscles. I think if everyone listened and did exactly what chiro's told them, then the world would be full of hurt, poor people:()

    Name of medical professional removed. Please contact member via PM for name or information pertaining to this professional Post edited by Moderator haglandc
    Prolo works on 85% + for back pain providing that the Prolo Doc is skilled,the patient has a healthy immune system and ligaments are the problem.
    I doubt the adjustments worsened my condition.

    Questions for your Doc.
    1)How many Prolo injections (not counting numbing injections) do you give?
    2)How many lumbar prolo procedures have you done?
    3)Where were you educated about prolo?
    4)How many prolo sessions will I need?
    5) how much does each session cost?

    Answers.
    1) about 50. A few injections will not do
    2) the more the better
    3) There's a university in Wisconsin that teaches prolo. Other's are trained offshore.
    4) This varies, but 4 to 6 are normal.
    5) This of course varies. I doubt that I would pay more than $500.

    **Yea, I get the little pops out of the SI area, when standing up or sitting down, expecially when I would squeeze my glute muscles.**
    A big indication that your SI will benefit from Prolo.

    ** I think if everyone listened and did exactly what chiro's told them, then the world would be full of hurt, poor people:()**
    My opinions on Chiros are mixed. I've come across people who needed to be adjusted once in a while to get rid of their sciatica pain. I think that's good.
    Adjustments did help free up my SI over the years but it's a temporary fix. That's not the best solution. Prolo is a permanent solution.

    The choice of the prolo solution varies but the Ongley Solution is the norm. Although my doc does not use that exact solution, he uses the typical dextrose based solution. Don't get to nutty about the solution used if your doc has experience let him use what he is experienced in using.

    Good luck.
    Post back, I'd like to know how your prolo experience goes.

  • Hey Crash,

    I hope the prolo works for you...I've been down the SI joint treatment road and finally had to have mine surgically stabilized.

    As far as getting it adjusted, I would recommend finding a physical therapist with some sort of manual therapy certification or possibly a McKenzie therapist. I saw a McKenzie therapist who was *wonderful* at gently rocking my sacrum back into alignment. She would put me on my side, stabilize my sacrum with one arm, and then sort of use her body weight to gently rock the ilium to get the SI joint to slide back into place (hard to describe, but nothing like high velocity chiropractor adjustments. There is no popping, just a gentle mobilization that makes the ilium rotate to realign the joint. Like you, I had a rotated ilium). Once in place I'd strap on my SI belt do all sorts of exercises to try to build the muscles up to hold it.

    I also had a short detour into chiropractics and after a few sessions could tell it was just making the SI joint even looser, so I know where you're coming from.

    As far as prolo, my NS talked to me about it before my surgery but by that point my pelvis had become so unstable it wasn't an option- I was an extreme case though because I fractured my sacrum which contributed significantly to my SI joint decline. I'm a bit of a skeptic, but don't really have much basis for an opinion on prolotherapy.

  • Hey Ozone prolo buddy:)

    Yea this guy wants to do the whole area, everything it sounds like. All the ligs around the sacrum and even along the pelvis where the glutes attach, maybe even attachments at the hip.

    My only concern is locking the SI joint in the uncorrect position. So I'm thinking I should prolo just the long and short ligs of the SI and then once i know the SI is fully tight in the right position, then do the rest of the outer ligs. Have you heard of any situations like this before?

    It's gonna cost me $250 a round, He said it shouldn't be no more then 4 rounds since I am in better good shape. He also said my SI are not the problem because they are very stable and not producing pain. He determined this from his SI stress tests.

  • Thank you Lala,

    That kindov SI adjustment sounds very good. I wish I could find a therapist like that. Thanks for the tip.
  • That sounds good, give it a try, I noticed a big change fours day after my first prolo. Your concern about the incorrect positioning of the SI joint are wrong. It will find its own correct position don't worry about that.

    My doctor gave me a SI stress test and said I didn't have a problem there also. I didn't think anything of it because I knew I was getting a lot of pain and
    popping noises in the SI area and that can only be from ligament problems. was right because the pain and noises were gone after the first few days and have not come back.

    When are you going to have this done?
  • My doctor told me that the prolotherapy takes 1-2 months ofr the ligs to actually tighten. This is how long it takes for the healing process. He told me that the initial, quick recovery patients feel in the first week is the dulling of pain sensors or something like that, i can't remember exactly.

    I hope your right about the SI not locking itself in an incorrect position. That's what I read on URL Removed. How are you certain this can't happen Ozone?

    I'm getting prolo'ed aug.15. I also have to get blood tests that the prolo doc perscribed to rule out reumatory arthritis and suc things.

    EDITED

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    Post Edited by Moderator haglandc

  • Hi Crash, you’ve been doing research I see, that’s good! Your doctor may be right about 1 to 2 months but from my own experience
    I will say that I had a lot of popping and aching in my SI area and it went away after four days. For example, if I were to lay face down on the floor and
    tighten my upper glutes I would get a aching pain in my SI area. I had this pain for years and it was gone after four days after my first prolo treatment.
    The popping sounds were gone too. They have not returned and neither has the pain in my lumbar. I don’t think this was related to pain sensors or even
    subjective on my part because a “noisy joint” is definitely noticeable and not a subjective problem.

    I was able to go the website before it was edited and I think I read what you were referring to about the incorrect position.
    You do realize that the SI does not lock, as you say, into position, it stabilizes. The SI should always move just not too much.

    There is a respected Prolo doc in Colorado, Dr G (I’ll be edited if I give his full name) and he was quoted saying,” There is some theoretical concern
    that prolotherapy of a persistently dysfunctional joint performed before reestablishment of articular normalcy might not relieve the symptoms and even
    contribute to the development of accommodative alterations both proximal and distal to the dysfunction itself.”

    That’s theory, so I never worried about it and never read about it being a problem in practice.

    A blood test is a good idea. If you are a diabetic you will need to get that under control or else you will not heal well from the Prolo.
    A healthy immune system is vital to healing. If you doc didn’t tell you, it’s important to maintain a healthy diet while healing. You want
    to eliminate junk foods, trans fats and high fructose corn syrup. Eat some good protein like eggs and meat, vegetables, healthy fats
    and generally foods that have one ingredient.
  • I should add Crash that there is a book titled,"Healing back and joint injuries" by J Valdez.
    You would probably like reading it.
  • I also get mine loosened up every 3 months, or as needed, by my chiro.
    It's the curl up on your side while I crash into you technique.
    Works very well when it is locked up, but I'm also concerned about the long term picture.
    I have been to both my chiro and physio about persistent low back pain, which hasn't improved after their treatments.
    Both advised me to become more active to keep the joints free.
    Well I have been, to my neck-irritation limits, but it's still sore.
    I can do most things, but get very restless at night, waking continually to turn.
    I saw an ad for a new therapy that I'm planning to try.
    Called Dorn spinal therapy.
    Has anybody heard of it?
    Looks primarily at odd leg lengths, fixes that, then frees up muscles that are not doing what they should.
    Pain-free and gentle, with exercises to continue at home.
    Looks promising, especially as the other treatments are not working.
    I suspect my pelvis is the prime cause, radiating to the lower back.

  • I'd like to correct something in my last post. Dr G is not in Colorado but is in Israel. If you Google "Dr G prolotherapy israel interview" you should find an interview with him listed on the first page. It is worth reading.

  • Thanks so much Ozone for all the good info. Yea, I'm still unsure if I'm going to have the prolo doc avoid the sacrotuberous or sacrospinous ligaments and also the iliolumbar lig to give the SI a chance to seal up. These are ligs at the very top of the pelvis and bottom of sacrum.

    But this prolo doc dosen't believe there is a problem with my SI joint. There's a lot of clues that point towards SIJ problems that I can't ignore. I just can't seem to get a concrete diagnoses from anyone. I know I have to stay on top of these people too for various reasons, eg: laziness, ignorant, money hungry, and they could cause more damage or irreversible damage. These chronic injuries are hard to conquer but I'm going to give it my best shot. God, I hope I have results like you. Just today i was sitting on a hard ground and then laid down and get that usual crack in the SI area, I think it's the SI area...Sorry for the rant.

    I'm gonna check out that book you reccommended. You heard of "the malalignment syndrome", very good read too.


  • Hi Ozone,

    Well I got prolo'd today and it was not what i was expecting. I pictured tons of painful shots which would have me clinching my fists and scrunching my face. Instead, I had a total of 4 shots on each side of my SI joints, so 8 in total. then I had 2 shots on each of my elbows for golfers elbow. It was virtually painless aswell. He would have done my ililumbar lig but I told him to wait on that one until I secure the SI joint first. Right decision, unknown???

    I am very stiff right now, 12 hours later. I am not taking anything for pain. I am not using ice either cause i don't want to prevent inflammation. Just taking some hot baths to increase circulation, is this an ok idea you think?

  • Ooh, it sounds like you are letting people you do not trust mess with your back. I'f It were me, I'd be rethinking anything that involves spending money on people who do not earn my trust.

    Like LaLa said, most of my PT have had some method of aligning my SI joint via firm but gental manipulation.
  • happyHBmom said:
    Ooh, it sounds like you are letting people you do not trust mess with your back. I'f It were me, I'd be rethinking anything that involves spending money on people who do not earn my trust.

    Like LaLa said, most of my PT have had some method of aligning my SI joint via firm but gental manipulation.
    I agree, a good physio should be able to diagnose, treat, explain and earn your trust. If a diagnosis is not possible, ask what you should do next.
    Try all of the easy treatments first!
  • Yes a PT or Chiropractor can help but for many of us the adjustment will not hold because of damaged ligaments. That is when Prolo can be used to repair the ligaments and keep the joint in place. Prolo is
    a very simple and safe process.
  • Well I just had my 2nd prolo done. I'm getting the prolo's done by an MD and Ultrasound guided. A total of 5 shots in each side of the SI joint.

    I feel alot better. The pain and discomfort is way better. No stiffness in mornings or any discomfort sitting or bending over. Although, I still get some cracking the odd morning and shifting sensations at various times but alot better then before.

    The major concern I have is when I saw the physio guy yesterday and he pushed on my SI area and got a huge crack. Now, I've got this crack before. He immediatly said, "WOW, you were right it is the SI joint". I think I'm getting a new physio dude cause this guy isn't making me happy. He just figures it will suck in on it's own because he really dosen't do much to me when I see him. He just says he might have to loosen it off if it gets to tight... How can an SI get to tight???

    I found another pelvic specialist in my area I'm gonna go see. Any advice on how to find an SI specialist that knows what hes doing would be greatly appreciated???
  • Hi Crash, I was wondering about you. Glad to read that you are improving with Prolo. Sorry I don't have any advice for you about finding another psysio or an answer to your SI being too tight question although I suppose it's possible that the SI can become too tight.
    Good luck and post back with progress reports.

  • Crash, just a thought, you may want to go back to your Chiro and have him adjust you rather than going the PT route. Mixing Prolo and manipulation is acceptable and in the article by Dr G that I mention above he states that he does manipulate the spine right after injecting Prolo.
  • Hey Ozone:)

    How has your prolo treatments coming along? Hope your Si and lower back is feeling good. Man, I was really freaked there for awhile, 2 years to be exact, that my lower back was never gonna be the same again.

    I'm really scared to have chiro's use that SI immobilization on me. I feel that could do more harm then good. I just need some more opinions from different physio's, I need someone to make sure I'm totally in before and after the shot and them to show me how to correct it myself or even my wife if possible.

    I've also been using prolo for my golfer's elbow and thinking about using it on some ligs in my neck. I just don't want these old injuries to keep bugging me.
  • My lumbar was painfree after the first prolo session and remains painfree. Leg pain is still a problem although I get less of it. I've had 4 prolo sessions so far and I planned on 4 to 6 and maybe more than that. My problems were worse than yours and I had them for years which means that it will take longer to treat. My worst enemy is my lack of patience.

    I started swimming and using a whirlpool recently.
    I would suggest trying a whirlpool and having the water from the jets hit your lumbar. It will increase blood circulation and help healing. I hope that you are exercising now because it is highly recommended while healing from the Prolo.

    Let me know how the prolo works on your elbow because I should probably be the poster child for tendonitis, I've had it in so many areas. My neck is also a problem and I'd like to get it Prolo'd in the future. There's a lot popping and cracking when I turn it and that means that it's hypermobile and may become arthritic in the future.

  • crashdummie said:
    Hi Ozone,

    Well I got prolo'd today and it was not what i was expecting. I pictured tons of painful shots which would have me clinching my fists and scrunching my face. Instead, I had a total of 4 shots on each side of my SI joints, so 8 in total. then I had 2 shots on each of my elbows for golfers elbow. It was virtually painless aswell. He would have done my ililumbar lig but I told him to wait on that one until I secure the SI joint first. Right decision, unknown???

    I am very stiff right now, 12 hours later. I am not taking anything for pain. I am not using ice either cause i don't want to prevent inflammation. Just taking some hot baths to increase circulation, is this an ok idea you think?

    I'm just reading this now because it was out of chronological order so I never saw it.
    Yes hot baths are good, ice or anti inflammatories are bad. Crash, I have to say that if your doctor is charging you $250 for 6 Prolo injections, well, that may be a little steep. I'm paying $300 for more injections from my upper lumber to the sacrum and across the beltline.
  • crashdummie said:
    Hi Ozone,

    Well I got prolo'd today and it was not what i was expecting. I pictured tons of painful shots which would have me clinching my fists and scrunching my face. Instead, I had a total of 4 shots on each side of my SI joints, so 8 in total. then I had 2 shots on each of my elbows for golfers elbow. It was virtually painless aswell. He would have done my ililumbar lig but I told him to wait on that one until I secure the SI joint first. Right decision, unknown???

    I am very stiff right now, 12 hours later. I am not taking anything for pain. I am not using ice either cause i don't want to prevent inflammation. Just taking some hot baths to increase circulation, is this an ok idea you think?

    I'm just reading this now because it was out of chronological order so I never saw it.
    Yes hot baths are good, ice or anti inflammatories are bad. Crash, I have to say that if your doctor is charging you $250 for 6 Prolo injections, well, that may be a little steep. I'm paying $300 for more injections from my upper lumber to the sacrum and across the beltline.

  • How are you Crash? I found an excellent lecture on Prolo on youtube. To find it search on "prolotherapy lecture" on youtube. It's in 6 parts and the Doctor covers about everything.
    Hope your well and improving as I am.
    O
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